Driving test failure due to use of regen braking

[MacherAWD]

My 2 cents goes to…you gotta demonstrate that you can decelerate and stop without OPD. Seriously, if you can’t do that you do not deserve a drivers license. Unless maybe they come up with a restricted license, just like “requires corrective lenses”, it would say “requires one pedal drive” (?)

Maybe the test should change, its a course with a pop up you must emergency brake for, or the instructor yells "kid in the street". If you react and stop the car you pass, if you crash through it with 1 pedal you fail. How about lane assist? Emergency auto braking, do we require shutting off every safety feature before a test?

Why am I still turning my head to reverse vs using bigger, clearer screens.

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[NorthlandPhil]

OPD isn't a safety feature. The other features are not all required, or their implementations just suck (like rear view cameras often do). The driver, on the other hand is required to have those skills.

 

[Mr. Toejam]

No matter what vehicle a person shows up to test in, you could what-if yourself into failing them.

Here's a what-if that applies to any applicant no matter how great they performed during the test......

What-if they leave with their new well earned driver's license and head down the road looking at Facebook?

I don't know if we are producing worse drivers today.
But I do think we have produced a smartphone addiction that distracts more and more people when they are driving.

We are talking about how someone gets tested to show that they can properly and safely operate a vehicle.

If there new driver is still using Facebook, well then....maybe they deserve....uh. Never mind

If you don't think worse and worse drivers are hitting the roads, head on over to So Cal (though I really don't recommend you do that). CA DMV will even give you a test in34 foreign languages. Good thing ever street sign is translated into 34 different languages (and no, I am not a racist). I have traveled to many international countries where driving practices are known to be horrible and I am starting to see those same behaviors here.

But it is easier to get a CA drivers license than order a coffee at Starbucks.

 

[Brent@ANParts]

I always liked the idea of having a shared test vehicle, some old sedan with an automatic, instead of some fancy new electric car, or a big SUV that the student brings in. Obviously this is a major headache with liability and insurance, but it would level the playing field, and would show drivers can get familiarized with an unfamiliar vehicle.

 

[bbulkow]

Just seen a report from Ontario, Canada where a young lady driver failed her driving test because she used regen braking instead of proper brakes.

Hybrids and ICE cars could have 1PD mode also.

1PD simply means apply some braking - no matter how you do it - when the accel is lifted a certain amount. 1PD as a user interface algorithm doesn't depend on having regen (and regen exists in hybrids). 1PD is certainly more common in evs.

Just like ADAS. I would assume using any form of ADAS would be a fail.

If they are going to fail someone for being in 1PD, that should be stated, and not confused with "don't use an EV".

 

[HuntingPudel]

Hybrids and ICE cars could have 1PD mode also.

1PD simply means apply some braking - no matter how you do it - when the accel is lifted a certain amount. 1PD as a user interface algorithm doesn't depend on having regen (and regen exists in hybrids). 1PD is certainly more common in evs.

Just like ADAS. I would assume using any form of ADAS would be a fail.

If they are going to fail someone for being in 1PD, that should be stated, and not confused with "don't use an EV".

Agreed that there's no reason to fail someone for use of regenerative braking. It's no different than leaving a manual car in gear or downshifting an automatic with a tight converter to add engine drag. If the particular state DMV has an issue with 1PD it should be made perfectly clear up front in their pre-test study material.

 

[Mr. Toejam]

I was bored, so I did a little search and here is the story. It was actually Arizona.



I still don't think regen is the issue, I am pretty sure it was one-pedal. I guess 2024 and on, Teslas cannot turn off one pedal. No more creep setting.

They ended up giving her the license but said they will be re-evaluating the way they test in the future.

In CA, this is what the DMV website says.
The drive test is intended to determine your skill in operating a motor vehicle in most road situations and evaluate your abilities, not the vehicle’s technology. Therefore, advanced driver assistance systems technologies, such as automated parallel parking, lane departure, and adaptive cruise control, are not permitted during the drive test. Vehicle safety technology, such as backup cameras and blind spot monitors, may be used on the drive test, but are not a replacement for an actual visual check of your mirrors and blind spots.

I took a look at AZs website and there is a section that tests for the improper use of brakes (but they spelled it "breaks"....it's AZ so I will let it slide.). I guess not using the brakes, could be considered, improper use. Maybe they mean a siesta in the middle of the test is improper and thus a deduction???

The AZ test also says that crowding the center line is a deduction. I guess if you are using Bluecruise 1.0, you would not pass this one.

 

[DonM]

She needs to take the test in one of those old cars where you had to stick a crank in the grille to start it. And then you had to adjust the choke to give it the right amount of gas. Otherwise she's depending on technology.

 

[Tosh]

It's another example of technology getting ahead of government.

What happens if you own a *truly* self-driving car? Do you just let the car take the driver's test, while you wait at the DMV?

 

[HuntingPudel]

She needs to take the test in one of those old cars where you had to stick a crank in the grille to start it. And then you had to adjust the choke to give it the right amount of gas. Otherwise she's depending on technology.

I depended on technology in my first driving test. I showed up with my Trans Am. Fresh Pontiac 455 build with 550+ lbs/ft of torque and about 30% of my race suspension installed. It had a Turbo 400 tranny at the time. That’s advanced tech.

 

[MellowJohnny]

So....I read a few local reports and apparently the girl was driving her Dad's Tesla and was asked to turn off 1PD. She did not know how to, so asked to call her Dad. Examiner said no.

So she drove with it on, and he failed her because the vehicle was "out of order". The Province has no stipulation in the exam guidelines that 1PD can't be used, but I guess he thought it shouldn't be. There are guidelines for backup cameras (allowed, but must show you have situational awareness by looking around) but that's about it.

To me the examiner was being a bit of a hard ass...

Full story here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/failed-road-test-tesla-regenerative-brakes-1.7637348

Yes, North Bay is a small town.

 

[Mach-Lee]

@DennisD what are your thoughts?

 

[Bad Dolphin]

Hopefully your daughter knows how to drive a non-electric vehicle since most cars are not EVs. What happens if she's renting a car, borrowing a car, or switching out on road trips in a car that doesn't have one pedal drive mode? I can see the point at the DMV. Why not just take the test in regular drive mode?

And what if she's borrowing a friend's manual transmission car? For most 16 year olds, they're (1) not going to be driving a rental car (age limit is often 25 plus) and (2) they're going to have one car available for them to drive from their family. Makes the most sense for them to be tested in the car that they will actually be operating on public roads IMHO. But certainly, the testing authority should specify if they won't accept a particular class of vehicle or driving mode in advance.

 

[DennisD]

@DennisD what are your thoughts?

This is quite interesting.

The "test" is given to see if you can operate a vehicle in a safe manner while adhering to the rules of the Road.

If she was using 1 pedal mode and operating it in a safe and controlled fashion, I would personally see no problem in evaluating her in said car. The pressure you place on the pedal and the release pressure basically engages a braking action. If she can operate a 1 pedal car, I would assume she could also drive a two pedal car in a safe manner. The tester could have easily had her make a stop in 2 pedal mode to see if she could operate that as well. While I don't think that would have been necessary, it would have satisfied his reason for her not passing in thinking she was not qualified in that regard.

Imagine the first person testing with an automatic car and the tester failing them suggesting that they didn't manually shift the car and going on to say they can't pass the Road Test due to that particular mode of transportation. I see it as no difference.

Just my two cents...............

 

[Mr. Toejam]

This is quite interesting.

The "test" is given to see if you can operate a vehicle in a safe manner while adhering to the rules of the Road.

If she was using 1 pedal mode and operating it in a safe and controlled fashion, I would personally see no problem in evaluating her in said car. The pressure you place on the pedal and the release pressure basically engages a braking action. If she can operate a 1 pedal car, I would assume she could also drive a two pedal car in a safe manner. The tester could have easily had her make a stop in 2 pedal mode to see if she could operate that as well. While I don't think that would have been necessary, it would have satisfied his reason for her not passing in thinking she was not qualified in that regard.

Imagine the first person testing with an automatic car and the tester failing them suggesting that they didn't manually shift the car and going on to say they can't pass the Road Test due to that particular mode of transportation. I see it as no difference.

Just my two cents...............

The case in Canada sounds like the tester disqualified the car because the young lady could not turn off the system, indicating that she could operate the vehicle in a safe manner...per the tester.

The case in AZ was the tester didn't like the driver not using the brake pedal (or break pedal as AZDOT refers to it). Maybe it confused the tester...it is AZ after all. Sorry, I have friends from AZ and I have fun busting their chops...they don't disagree.

I would argue that a person that has never used a brake pedal would not be very good at using it, thus not being able to operate the vehicle in a controlled fashion. I would state that a person who can drive a manual can assume to be able to drive an automatic. 2 of the 3 pedals are common. But not the other way around. I believe Europe has a separate license for Manual and automatic drivers.

Since rear view cameras and displays are now federally mandated for new cars, their use during a test is acceptable, but that doesn't mean you can ignore the mirrors or remove them. I would assume that the tester has the right to ask someone to back up using mirrors only, something many people are horrible at.

Isn't this fun. Sorry, I needed a break from everyday life today, and this was a fun topic.

Especially since may daughter is studying to take her permit test. But before that happens, she has to read the entire DMV drivers manual and I get to give her a pop quiz. If she passes my quiz, then she gets to take the permit test. Unfortunately, I don't have a manual any more. if I did, she would be learning on that and that would probably be her first car. Much harder to text and shift at the same time. And a manual allows you to understand more of how a car works.

They can only test you on what you bring, so don't bring something with all of these fancy bells and whistles. Keep It Simple.

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