Reopening America ?

[pbojanoski]

I don't usually post on these political threads but:
I do believe that the early (and unfortunately continuing) attacks on our Asian-American, fellow citizens were unfounded. I did welcome any efforts to counter hate targeted at their community and to paint them as riskier than those shopping at a Whole Foods or Starbucks.
I do think that comments made 6 weeks ago in school to my 10-year-old, South Korean son by classmates accusing him of having the Coronavirus were fueled by ignorance and racism. I did see how distraught he was by that and, therefore, I do think messaging from the leadership should not have been that we attack, accuse, exclude or otherwise lash out at our fellow Americans.

I think the old adage that "you can't fix stupid" is mostly correct. People are going to do stupid things. I have little reason to believe this is anything but a small minority of people doing this. It is highly unfortunate, but perfectly predictable. It will happen now, it has happened in the past, and will happen always in the future as long as people have freedom of choice. We need to stand against it for sure as best we can.

I also think your boy is suffering from one unfortunate reality of childhood. I can tell you that from personal experience. That doesn't excuse it and you obviously want to protect your son, but this is nothing new for kids. Kids will find a reason to "torture" others for whatever reason. It is part of growing up and learning what it means to be in society. I feel for you son and hope he feels safe with help from you and school officials. Best wishes for all of this to get behind us.

Did you say there was something from "leadership" that promoted lashing out at fellow Americans? I have not seen anything like that. Can you confirm?

Sponsored

 

[Ken7]

I don't usually post on these political threads but:
I do believe that the early (and unfortunately continuing) attacks on our Asian-American, fellow citizens were unfounded. I did welcome any efforts to counter hate targeted at their community and to paint them as riskier than those shopping at a Whole Foods or Starbucks.
I do think that comments made 6 weeks ago in school to my 10-year-old, South Korean son by classmates accusing him of having the Coronavirus were fueled by ignorance and racism. I did see how distraught he was by that and, therefore, I do think messaging from the leadership should not have been that we attack, accuse, exclude or otherwise lash out at our fellow Americans.

It is unfortunate to see any group targeted for discrimination.

It's also unfortunate that some would take aim at Asian-Americans for the sins of the Chinese communist government. It's now clear to anyone that the Chinese government lied and thus delayed the response of not only health officials in the U.S., but health officials around the world. A Stamford University study estimated that up to 95% of infections & fatalities could have been avoided if China was forthright about what was going on.

We shall see if this virus resulted from a blunder at the Wuhan Institute of Virology or from the wet markets in Wuhan.

It's unforgivable that China hoarded PPE when they knew what was going on with the virus. More unfortunate was the fact that Italy generously donated to China PPE and other corona virus supplies when they needed it, only to have China force Italy to buy back these same supplies when Italy needed it. That's a rare breed of evil, but not uncommon when dealing with communists.

 

[eager2own]

Did you say there was something from "leadership" that promoted lashing out at fellow Americans? I have not seen anything like that. Can you confirm?

Merely responding to the accusation that it'd be laughable that someone in the position of Speaker of the House of Representatives should show or communicate support for Chinatown and our country's Asian-American community.

Unfortunately, there was much sentiment along those lines at the time. My son's experience was not a case of boys-will-be boys that was isolated from what those boys were being told. That is why, although I am not a fan of much of what Nancy Pelosi has done, my list of criticisms doesn't include the fact that she used her leadership pulpit to address the attacks and negative sentiments towards Asian-Americans.

 

[Ken7]

Merely responding to the accusation that it'd be laughable that someone in the position of Speaker of the House of Representatives should show or communicate support for Chinatown and our country's Asian-American community.

No, that's not the point I was making. That's what she wants you to believe. Anyone that listened to her clearly heard her encouraging to get out and go out to Chinatown. So when she points the finger at the President for not closing up shop quick enough, her hypocrisy could't be more clear. She is clearly tone deaf and nothing better illustrates that than her joyfully showing her $16/pint ice cream in her multi-thousand dollar freezers. I can only imagine how the media would have reacted if Mitch McConnel had done that while not bothering to come back to Washington to vote for funding desperately needed. Yikes!

The bottom line is you can certainly encourage people not to target a group because of some deceitful action a foreign government is guilty of without encouraging people to get out and come down to Chinatown. Two entirely different things.

 

[pbojanoski]

Merely responding to the accusation that it'd be laughable that someone in the position of Speaker of the House of Representatives should show or communicate support for Chinatown and our country's Asian-American community.

Unfortunately, there was much sentiment along those lines at the time. My son's experience was not a case of boys-will-be boys that was isolated from what those boys were being told. That is why, although I am not a fan of much of what Nancy Pelosi has done, my list of criticisms doesn't include the fact that she used her leadership pulpit to address the attacks and negative sentiments towards Asian-Americans.

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow you. What leadership was encouraging lashing out at fellow Americans?

And again, I'm sorry for your son, but kids will find any reason they can to torture others. As I said, I know this from personal experience. They may get the idea from family, friends, media, etc., but they do it because they are young and immature, not because they are inherent bigots.

And I have a very low threshold of politicians using politically correct stances for personal/political gain. I will always look at how consistent they are in that stance. Do they play favorites? Do they stand for all that are being preyed upon or is it only a select few? Politicians, especially party leadership have ulterior motives in almost 100% of instances. You don't get to be a party leader unless you know how to play people. You certainly don't usually get there by being honest and objective. Very few are worthy of anything, but a very critical eye.

 

[pbojanoski]

While not endorsing any COVID-19 treatment, this type of out of the box thinking is what we will need to keep this and future diseases under control. We'll see if this amounts to anything, but I like looking for new ways of thinking and attacking a problem.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/04/20/zinc-dosage-for-immune-system.aspx

 

[eager2own]

No, that's not the point I was making. That's what she wants you to believe. Anyone that listened to her clearly heard her encouraging to get out and go out to Chinatown. So when she points the finger at the President for not closing up shop quick enough, her hypocrisy could't be more clear. She is clearly tone deaf and nothing better illustrates that than her joyfully showing her $16/pint ice cream in her multi-thousand dollar freezers. I can only imagine how the media would have reacted if Mitch McConnel had done that while not bothering to come back to Washington to vote for funding desperately needed. Yikes!

The bottom line is you can certainly encourage people not to target a group because of some deceitful action a foreign government is guilty of without encouraging people to get out and come down to Chinatown. Two entirely different things.

At the time of her visit to San Francisco (six weeks before SF instituted stay-at-home orders), Chinese businesses were disproportionately affected in San Francisco and elsewhere. Her comments that people's concerns about China and its government should not be targeted against Chinatown and San Francisco were not inappropriate in that context. (Her exact quote given at the time: "I do think that because it started in China, there’s a concern that are the – is the Chinese government doing what it needed to do early enough, and now as we go forward. But that should not be carried over to Chinatown and San Francisco.”) There's no reason folks should still go to Wholefoods and Walmart while avoiding Asian-American owned businesses.

And again, I'm sorry for your son, but kids will find any reason they can to torture others. As I said, I know this from personal experience. They may get the idea from family, friends, media, etc., but they do it because they are young and immature, not because they are inherent bigots.

But again, you respond as if my son's case was an isolated incident. It was the closest to home for me, but it was just one of many reported incidents against Asian-Americans -- the others done by adults and not 10-year-olds.

 

[Ken7]

At the time of her visit to San Francisco (six weeks before SF instituted stay-at-home orders), Chinese businesses were disproportionately affected in San Francisco and elsewhere. Her comments that people's concerns about China and its government should not be targeted against Chinatown and San Francisco were not inappropriate in that context. (Her exact quote given at the time: "I do think that because it started in China, there’s a concern that are the – is the Chinese government doing what it needed to do early enough, and now as we go forward. But that should not be carried over to Chinatown and San Francisco.”) There's no reason folks should still go to Wholefoods and Walmart while avoiding Asian-American owned businesses.

But she also encouraged people to get out as opposed to staying at home. I merely pointing out her hypocrisy just like her tone deaf display in her kitchen as people & small businesses needed relief, but she preferred staying in her mansion eating her 16/pint ice cream. It was the same thing here in NY when our Health Commissioner encouraged people to get out, get on the subway & buses, come down to Chinatown etc. etc. These people then have chutzpah to turn around and accuse Trump of acting late.

 

[Ken7]

Here's an interesting clip to watch with Dan Crenshaw and Bill Maher. Dan has many facts at his disposal and it's fun to watch. The discussion on the virus, the travel ban and such begins at 4:40

 

[ChasingCoral]

My main point was that this virus seems to be MUCH less lethal than the general news media is touting. I focused on stories that are emerging that the mortality rate is very low compared to the raw numbers seen when comparing confirmed cases and deaths.

As you already agreed, underlying conditions make the COVID-19 outcome significantly worse. So why are you arguing with me on that point???

Because you keep changing your story. Is the thread quoting tool somehow making a mistake in showing that you said:

Based on recent evidence emerging, the virus seems highly unlikely to be a major issue to anyone without an underlying condition.

There are lots of families who have lost loved ones who would disagree with that statement.

Are you now saying is the media is getting it wrong and somehow we haven't really lost over 35,000 American lives to Covid-19 so far?
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

 

[ChasingCoral]

First and foremost, I haven't denigrated any "rag". If I did anything, I suggested that all news media are biased. I'll except your apology if you are big enough to provide one.

I'll take you on your word that you didn't. I must have mixed your posts up with those of another member and I do apologize.

Are you suggesting that the huge economic issues and reduced medical care for non-COVID-19 related issues are getting big coverage in the general media? Cable news, websites, and the like the majority of people actually look at? Are there daily stories about how each day of shutdown will create long lasting economic AND health woes?

Yes. I see these sort of articles on a daily basis -- not sure why you aren't. Perhaps it is your sources of news. That was the very point I was making that even in the Washington Post, these are issues that have been addressed regularly. I could have conducted the same searches on any number of other well-respected news sources and given you a similar list from the last week or so. Feel free to try it.

Sponsored