Ford needs to add battery preheat option for level 3 charging like other does

[timbop]

Well, everyone complains about cold weather range and a heat pump would help with that. Let's hope Ford makes it available sooner than later.

Yes, now that Tesla put a heat pump beginning in March 2020 a heat pump has been an "oversight" for other cars like the Mach-E. Prior to that all those same Teslarati decried the fact that other cars had them and insisted they were not overly effective.

Regardless they do help some, but not as much as they've been credited for. Like every other "technological advantage" attributed to Tesla, it is overblown.

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[dml105]

No, Tesla had it long before they started putting the heat pumps into their cars last year.

Tesla had what exactly, and how do we know Ford 1) doesn’t have that thing and 2) needs that thing?

There is remarkably little official documentation on the battery, including what Mach-e actually does to condition it. So it appears that every post on this site is referencing Tesla or some other make and making an assumption about Ford. I wish people would be more specific and cite sources.

 

[timbop]

Tesla had what exactly, and how do we know Ford 1) doesn’t have that thing and 2) needs that thing?

There is remarkably little official documentation on the battery, including what Mach-e actually does to condition it. So it appears that every post on this site is referencing Tesla or some other make and making an assumption about Ford. I wish people would be more specific and cite sources.

Tesla has had the "feature" for years. The "feature" being it warms the battery automatically 15 minutes or so before arriving at a supercharger if you put a supercharger in as a destination. Ford clearly does not have that feature, as was first evidenced when the automotive press and youtubers got their hands on the cars to do reviews. @OutofSpecKyle and the "now you know" guys both did DCFC testing then (it was early winter and temps were in the 30's and 40's). They both saw that the car was pulling only 50 kw or less, and in particular the "now you know" guys did a comparison between their older Tesla (model 3 performance I think) and the mach-e, and since the Tesla warmed the battery it was drawing much more current (125kw maybe?). I don't remember all the details of that, but then @OutofSpecKyle did a road trip test with a borrowed Mach E in March I believe and saw the same thing.

I know others have also used Forscan or similar apps connected to the cars' OBD2 port and see that the battery temps are fairly cold when they arrive at a DCFC even though they put it into the NAV.

 

[Logal727]

Heat pumps and pre-conditioning aren't entirely related. Teslas just got heat pumps, they are just more efficient at cabin climate. They've had heat strips like the Mach-E for years. The Mach-E doesn't need a heat pump to pre-condition when you put in a DCFC, just a software update. Though I'm sure it will gain a heat pump to make it more efficient at heating/cooling in a couple years.

 

[Maquis]

Heat pumps and pre-conditioning aren't entirely related. Teslas just got heat pumps, they are just more efficient at cabin climate. They've had heat strips like the Mach-E for years. The Mach-E doesn't need a heat pump to pre-condition when you put in a DCFC, just a software update. Though I'm sure it will gain a heat pump to make it more efficient at heating/cooling in a couple years.

Yeah, the heat pump discussion is a red herring with regards to battery conditioning.

And I'm not convinced a heat pump will make a measureable difference in range unless someone does most of their driving in the heat pump's efficiency "sweet spot".....that is calling for cabin heat above 40F.

 

[dml105]

Tesla has had the "feature" for years. The "feature" being it warms the battery automatically 15 minutes or so before arriving at a supercharger if you put a supercharger in as a destination. Ford clearly does not have that feature, as was first evidenced when the automotive press and youtubers got their hands on the cars to do reviews. @OutofSpecKyle and the "now you know" guys both did DCFC testing then (it was early winter and temps were in the 30's and 40's). They both saw that the car was pulling only 50 kw or less, and in particular the "now you know" guys did a comparison between their older Tesla (model 3 performance I think) and the mach-e, and since the Tesla warmed the battery it was drawing much more current (125kw maybe?). I don't remember all the details of that, but then @OutofSpecKyle did a road trip test with a borrowed Mach E in March I believe and saw the same thing.

I know others have also used Forscan or similar apps connected to the cars' OBD2 port and see that the battery temps are fairly cold when they arrive at a DCFC even though they put it into the NAV.

Hey, thanks for this. It is helpful!

Mostly. My question (which is directed at the folks at OutofSpecKyle and the now you know guys) is what temperature does the Mach-e battery need to be at to DCFC, and how does this help? Because even with that context, it seems VERY speculative -- "Tesla has a heat pump and it charges at a faster rate"

Well... Tesla has a different battery, a different charging system, a different charging curve, a lot more experience with how their particular batteries work, etc. Also, Tesla is sometimes reckless. Ford is cautious to a fault. LOTS of different variables and no useful control (Mach-e heated versus Mach-e not heated).

Anyway, I *think* I am reading some sarcasm in your post ("now that Tesla put a heat pump beginning in March 2020 a heat pump has been an "oversight" for other cars like the Mach-E. Prior to that all those same Teslarati decried the fact that other cars had them and insisted they were not overly effective.") And if so, I'd tend to agree.

 

[Wildthing]

Yeah, the heat pump discussion is a red herring with regards to battery conditioning.

And I'm not convinced a heat pump will make a measureable difference in range unless someone does most of their driving in the heat pump's efficiency "sweet spot".....that is calling for cabin heat above 40F.

I can insure you it does! But that discussion is about the battery preheat to accelerate level 3 charge. It's a software update than can be done. I bought my car without an heat pump and they will not add it so that discussion would be for 2023+ models.
But battery preheat is important in Canada

 

[Tyldum]

VW claimed up 30% more range with heatpump than without. In reality it turned out to be up to 10% for their models, so in a settlement they did a partial refund to those who bought it.

Anyways, not relevant for current MME customers.

Roadtripping at about -20C I generally get 75kWh after driving for an hour or more. A tip from others I have heard is to drive more actively style prior to charging, to get more temperature into the cells. Hard to do during winter, though...

 

[Wildthing]

@Ford Motor Company @Ford Team, what are you waiting to add battery preheat before level 3 charging? The car is already able to do it when you program a preconditionning. We just want to be able to do it manually or when we select a level 3 charger.

The list of competitors that offers it grows : Tesla, Polestar, Hyundai/Kia (announced for 2022), and Volkswagen (announced forQ1 2022).

Take a look at the bad charging data of my canadian friends for December/January and you'll see that this necessary.

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