Ford will be bankrupt in less than 4 years

[dbsb3233]

That's not completely fair on 2 counts. The F150 announcement you referred to was for the hybrid (which has already started production). The F150 BEV wasn't announced until much later. And the MME would be in customer's hands already if the pandemic hadn't happened.

And that hybrid looks like it could be FANTASTIC. The Powerboost model looks like a rolling workshop.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-ford-f-150-powerboost-hybrid-features-and-specs/

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[dbsb3233]

The Mach-E compares more to an Escape in size, not an Edge. Externally it's close to an Edge in length (long nose) but internally (which is what matter the most) it's pretty close to Escape size.

Mach-e interior cargo (seats down) is 59.6 cu ft.
Escape interior cargo is 65.4.
Edge interior cargo is 73.4.

And the Escape price is significantly less than the Edge.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

And the Transit and what ever they gone built in Canada.

 

[ChasingCoral]

And the Kona BEV is eligible for the $7500 tax credit still.

 

[Jolteon]

And that hybrid looks like it could be FANTASTIC. The Powerboost model looks like a rolling workshop.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021-ford-f-150-powerboost-hybrid-features-and-specs/

I don't get why they went with the ultimate top of the line 3.5L EcoBoost as the hybrid, seems like the "rolling workshop" fleet buyers would be scared away by the price tag. I wonder if they're doing it to keep it artificially rare.

The 3.3L V6 hybrid from the Explorer would seem like naturally what the "work truck" rolling toolbox should have been, since the work truck F-150 uses that same 3.3L V6 anyway.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't get why they went with the ultimate top of the line 3.5L EcoBoost as the hybrid, seems like the "rolling workshop" fleet buyers would be scared away by the price tag. I wonder if they're doing it to keep it artificially rare.

The 3.3L V6 hybrid from the Explorer would seem like naturally what the "work truck" rolling toolbox should have been, since the work truck F-150 uses that same 3.3L V6 anyway.

Sounds like it can be added to different ones too...

"The new PowerBoost Hybrid option is available on every trim level, but its cost will apparently vary. Adding the hybrid to the F-150’s base 3.3L Duratec V6 will cost an extra $4,495, $3,300 for the 2.7L EcoBoost V6, and $2,500 for the 5.0L Coyote V8 and 3.5L EcoBoost V6. "

https://fordauthority.com/2020/07/2021-ford-f-150-pricing-revealed-plus-powerboost-hybrid-cost/

 

[Jolteon]

Sounds like it can be added to different ones too...

"The new PowerBoost Hybrid option is available on every trim level, but its cost will apparently vary. Adding the hybrid to the F-150’s base 3.3L Duratec V6 will cost an extra $4,495, $3,300 for the 2.7L EcoBoost V6, and $2,500 for the 5.0L Coyote V8 and 3.5L EcoBoost V6. "

https://fordauthority.com/2020/07/2021-ford-f-150-pricing-revealed-plus-powerboost-hybrid-cost/

That's the cost to upgrade from those engines to the 3.5L GTDI FHEV.

 

[RetiredDP]

It's funny because I remember a few years ago when they were all altruistic, talking about how they wanted all manufacturers to get into the EV game. Well, now their old wish is coming true, and they're showing their true colors. They're pretty much just Musk cultists at this point.

I suspect that the scenario they envisioned had Tesla in a much more high-volume and dominant market position before legacy OEMs "got wise." In reality, Tesla's starting to show cracks and the competition is getting uncomfortable. Several legacy competitors (namely Ford with the Mach E/BEV-150 and GM with the Hummer and Lyriq) look like their upcoming products will out-do Tesla in their own games of flashy performance and tech without the suspect build quality. Other legacy competitors (VW and Kia/Hyundai spring to mind here, plus the Bolt) don't have offerings that are necessarily superior to Tesla, but may offer better value from a purely cost and quality perspective. Finally, Rivian and potentially Lucid look like they could eat Tesla's lunch in the startup EV manufacturer space.

I'm starting to think those guys are getting nervous, and that insecurity is driving their venom. Telsa did have an amazing opportunity from around 2014 to whenever the Porsche Taycan went on sale where they got to be basically the sole serious player in the EV space. While they did do a good job of trying to grow market and mindshare during that window, they also made several mistakes that I think will end up costing them in the long run.

First was the weird focus on gimmicks like self-driving that never worked as advertised and have created more controversy and liability than sales. I doubt that "self-driving" really created that many sales for them, and most of their customers would have still bought cars in a universe where they didn't try to oversell their L2 autonomous capabilities. Second, I think they missed the boat on the market's transition to SUVs over sedans. Even outside of North America, SUV/crossovers are really the body style the market wants, but Tesla always launched the sedan variant of each platform BEFORE the SUV (S before X, 3 before Y). I think that's been to their detriment, and not a mistake that the legacy OEMs coming to market with dedicated EVs are repeating. Third, they arrogantly assumed that ramping up production while maintaining quality would be trivial - "if the knuckleheads in Detroit can figure it out, we can too!" That obviously hasn't worked out for them, and what had been a reputation for forgivable quirks like paint irregularities has turned into a full-blown reputation for dangerous structural failures. Finally (and admittedly most subjectively), their designs just seem to be getting worse with time. I was utterly smitten with the original Model S. It's what got me initially interested in EVs. But each vehicle they've launched since, from the X to the 3 to the Y to cyber truck has been uglier and less appealing than what preceded it. I'm almost afraid to look at whatever monstrosity follows the cyber truck if that trend continues.

I guess that turned into a book, but I really wonder about these fanboys. I get liking a company and its products, but these guys are so fanatical it's just weird.

They haven't mentioned on their show the Model Y moonroof that blew out on the freeway immediately after delivery to the new owner.

 

[woody]

Exterior design has been the forte of American automobile manufacturers for eighty plus years. Aside from Ford (in modern times), quality has not been a consideration for American automobile manufacturers.
I am no fan of Tesla (reasons stated above), but Musk was clever as an idea man and huckster. He was able to obtain a great deal of financing and tremendous amounts of free marketing. His business acumen is somewhat lacking, but he knows how to circumvent that. Exterior design and quality were not in his game plan.
Regarding quality, his approach resembles decades long American manufacturing.
Electric vehicles present the opportunity for quality. Even GM can do it! The Bolt is the best vehicle GM has ever sold.
Auto makers have always developed cult followings (Chevy man vs. Ford man, etc.) and Tesla is no exception. A cult is a cult.
What is declared should be taken with a grain of salt.
You get what you (paid to) get.

 

[Dafstang]

I hesitated to even post this video, as I would rather Zac and Jessie not get any more views but in the end I think it shows how rabid they've become. If you don't own a Tesla, you are nothing to them. It's clear their mission is not to move to a green economy, but it is to pump Tesla.

They really, truly believe that the Cybertruck will (a) be released (I personally question whether it will ever even go to production), (b) be released on time, (c) appeal to the same people who the Ford F-150 appeals to (well, I live in Texas, the state that buys the most F-150s and I can definitely tell you that ain't true) and that it will almost single-handedly kill Ford.

They move on to knock Ford's range extender (e.g., generator). They clearly don't know construction. Contractors (like the ones who drive F-150s) already drive around with generators for the job site. Imagine if you didn't have to do that anymore, and your vehicle *comes with its own generator*! It is a fantastic idea and does double-duty as not only a range extender, but a job site tool.

Third, in a move that I legitimately don't know whether they are just that dumb or they are intentionally misleading, they show Ford's balance sheet for 2019 vs. 2020 and say, "Look nobody wants to buy Fords their sales are dropping" but they completely fail to mention "the elephant in the room" (you know what I mean, we shall not mention it's name) which is the cause. They say, "but Tesla is still selling lots of vehicles" .. and again, are they just that stupid? Tesla is selling vehicles that were reserved *before* the "we shall not mention its name" started. And, they are selling only the highest-priced versions (to rich folks, who are not impacted by "we shall not mention its name"). Clearly construction and business (the main buyers of the F-150) are the most impacted by "we shall not mention its name".

Last, and pertinent to us here on the forum, they address the Mach E. Quotes, "They couldn't even make enough of these if they wanted"; "What about it, first of all its not out yet" (but yet they are so confident in the Cybertruck which is still at least 2 years away?) With respect to Ford dropping the Mach E price, they say, "probably because sales are soft".

Here is the link to the video so you can fact-check me in context. But, do with with ad block on, please.

Those guys are just idiots!!

 

[dbsb3233]

Exterior design and quality were not in his game plan.

Agree that Tesla exterior design is severely lacking (in the 3 and Y, at least). But it does seem there's a bit of method to the madness (or boring-ness)... aerodynamics. Tesla sacrificed looks to minimize drag, so they could increase range.

I fear we're going to see more of that, at least until battery energy density gets so good that they don't have build cars that look like airplane wings in order to get decent range from them.

 

[Jolteon]

Exterior design has been the forte of American automobile manufacturers for eighty plus years. Aside from Ford (in modern times), quality has not been a consideration for American automobile manufacturers.
I am no fan of Tesla (reasons stated above), but Musk was clever as an idea man and huckster. He was able to obtain a great deal of financing and tremendous amounts of free marketing. His business acumen is somewhat lacking, but he knows how to circumvent that. Exterior design and quality were not in his game plan.
Regarding quality, his approach resembles decades long American manufacturing.
Electric vehicles present the opportunity for quality. Even GM can do it! The Bolt is the best vehicle GM has ever sold.
Auto makers have always developed cult followings (Chevy man vs. Ford man, etc.) and Tesla is no exception. A cult is a cult.
What is declared should be taken with a grain of salt.
You get what you (paid to) get.

Yup. The cult is one of the big reasons I have the Mach-E on order. I can't stand the Tesla "enthusiast" community when it's just a Elon personality cult.

 

[rplinpa]

Eh, I don't need context here.

If the Cybertruck ever comes out, some soccer dads will buy it on the coasts (and Austin I guess) in place of an F-150. But yeah, nobody using their truck in construction, farming/ranching, etc. will ever get one, if for no other reason than everyone else laughing and pointing.

I don't think the will replace the 150 for anyone. That truck looks like the Hummer buyer to me. Another expensive toy.

 

[TheLight75]

I couldn't get past the first 5 minutes and their condescending attitudes... ?

 

[MerryBrown]

the Tesla S model was exciting and revolutionary. I loved them and wanted to love the 3. Unfortunately, Elon has focused on getting big numbers out the door and sacrificed quality. Now Even the wow factor is starting to suffer. Elon gets bored and moves on to the rockets, or whatever is interesting to him at the time. Who knows how much longer Tesla cars will be around?

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