He's dead Jim! Whodunit? 12 V or HVBJB, place your bets!

[jbooth]

Job 1 MME ("Jeeves") died tonight. Drove a few miles across town to a friend's for dinner. Stopped on the way home at a grocery store. When we came back out, car didn't power up normally. I pulled codes and got something (which I wasn't smart enough to write down) about a rear axle differential communication fault. Tried a power down then back up, same thing -- car boots but only into accessory mode.

Shut the car off. Got friends to take wife and kid home. App -> Roadside -> 2 hours later the 12 V is sufficiently dead when they arrive that the sync display drops into "screen off to conserve battery" before I can even get settings up to be able to shift into emergency tow mode. Tow company didn't know what to do with the frunk. I pulled two panels myself and they go, "that's good enough we can jump it from there." Hope they didn't do any damage by not jumping it on the battery itself. Winched up, dropped it at dealer. Even just that (plus one other jump start they did on the way) had their 12 V jump battery dead, so there was a pit stop at Walmart to grab another. Their first battery did hold out long enough to get me in e-tow at the dealer and we rolled back into a parking spot, but I couldn't shift to park. A friend who'd showed up to give me a ride was the jump power source to get it in park.

We've gotten a lot of "electrical system drain; see dealer" messages. Basically daily. No aftermarket stuff and the dealer couldn't find the source of the drain when I'd asked them to look a couple months ago (while it was in for bluecruise/unstick updates).

So yeah that was a fun 4-hour shit show where if it'd been my wife, it'd probably still be at Meijer. Wonder how many weeks it'll be before my dealer can get their EV tech (I think they have one) to look at it.

So, anyone want to place bets on what the root cause is? I sure hope it isn't the "rear axle diff comm fault" because refusing to connect the HV battery, and thus no A/C seems dangerous in if it happened in the southwest in summer. From the point of view of "that'd be a stupid design decision" I'm left with 12 V not getting charged properly, failed 12 V battery, or HVBJB.

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[Garbone]

12 volt system me thinks. They can pull the lead acid and do a capacitance test on it and see if it has a bad cell. If not ye old battery it could be a charging issue. Hope you get a good technician, is there another dealer option nearby? A few months back did the dealer put it on the invoice they attempted to diagnose the issue? If not I would hazard the tech probably did not look that hard as they did not allow the time on the service call to do it.

 

[Shayne]

Job 1 MME ("Jeeves") died tonight. Drove a few miles across town to a friend's for dinner. Stopped on the way home at a grocery store. When we came back out, car didn't power up normally. I pulled codes and got something (which I wasn't smart enough to write down) about a rear axle differential communication fault. Tried a power down then back up, same thing -- car boots but only into accessory mode.

Shut the car off. Got friends to take wife and kid home. App -> Roadside -> 2 hours later the 12 V is sufficiently dead when they arrive that the sync display drops into "screen off to conserve battery" before I can even get settings up to be able to shift into emergency tow mode. Tow company didn't know what to do with the frunk. I pulled two panels myself and they go, "that's good enough we can jump it from there." Hope they didn't do any damage by not jumping it on the battery itself. Winched up, dropped it at dealer. Even just that (plus one other jump start they did on the way) had their 12 V jump battery dead, so there was a pit stop at Walmart to grab another. Their first battery did hold out long enough to get me in e-tow at the dealer and we rolled back into a parking spot, but I couldn't shift to park. A friend who'd showed up to give me a ride was the jump power source to get it in park.

We've gotten a lot of "electrical system drain; see dealer" messages. Basically daily. No aftermarket stuff and the dealer couldn't find the source of the drain when I'd asked them to look a couple months ago (while it was in for bluecruise/unstick updates).

So yeah that was a fun 4-hour shit show where if it'd been my wife, it'd probably still be at Meijer. Wonder how many weeks it'll be before my dealer can get their EV tech (I think they have one) to look at it.

So, anyone want to place bets on what the root cause is? I sure hope it isn't the "rear axle diff comm fault" because refusing to connect the HV battery, and thus no A/C seems dangerous in if it happened in the southwest in summer. From the point of view of "that'd be a stupid design decision" I'm left with 12 V not getting charged properly, failed 12 V battery, or HVBJB.

The jump/charge points are not on the 12V they are off to the right looking into the frunk. A body post negative and a removable red cap positive. You can drill ports thru the cover to access them and avoid ripping covers off. There are threads here about the 12V.

You pulled obd2 codes but did not save them? What was the dash saying at the time? Did you have it powered on for the time waiting for a tow and the 12V slowly died? What happened to only run it in accessory mode is not clear therefore hard to guess. Does not sound like a common HVJB fail. Mine killed the 12V in the cold a number of times (2 brand new 12V's) so I am interested in your out come. I could always charge it back up to boot/drive so killing 2 12V's (the cars and the jump battery) that quick is a bit different.

What sync up date were you stuck on? Mine will not go past 2.7.1 and stuck since early May. Dealer is avoiding me now but they got to step 18 and what appears to be to the requirement for 5 hours on a CAN bus before they pulled the plug. My location and internet provider, not good software etc. was what I got as an explanation when I picked it up still not fully updated and still stuck on 2.7.1. The common baffle you with BS. Minimum service, just plug it and forget it with software refined OTA. How is that working out for us?

 

[jbooth]

Okay, their clamp points were about where the embossed +- were on the frunk, so maybe they were where they were supposed to be. They were jacked on those while I was still putting that piece of plastic in the back seat and I didn't get a good look at under the frunk plastic. I was aware of but hadn't done those mods as we'd had enough trouble with the car before this we were looking at a trade. Unclear if we'll do it, having missed the EV credit on our targets (I5/EV6). If we don't trade it, having now pulled the panel, you can be sure I'll be doing it.

Dash said nothing much initially, just had the 12V battery icon lit initially and car wouldn't start to more than accessory mode. No electrical system drain message, no service vehicle soon nor stop safely now.

I had the car off while waiting for a tow. I was inside it, with the key, but I'd turned it off and popped the door open & shut so it (seemed to) turn off everything, including interior lights. That said, as it got dark I could see the bluecrise "attention" leds glowing a faint red, so clearly it wasn't actually fully off. I didn't want to abandon the car with a window down, I didn't want to wait outside to get chewed up by bugs (in the dark, the nearby parking lot lamp was off), and I figured I didn't want

I had been stuck pre-1.7.1. I couldn't tell you if I was on 1.4 or 1.6, but the car hadn't updated until the dealer did bluecrise in Mayish. Since then I did get the HVBJB update as OTA successfully. Nothing beyond for the 3.x series folks are posting, but I'm not early access.

I'd agree it was a 12 V issue, but if so, why when the plugged in the jump pack would the car not start up normally? It was enough to get to accessory mode (so I could put up the window and use the settings menu to enable emergency tow). I guess their jump pack could have been low, maybe I should have tried a jump off a running car when our rescue driver came? Oh well, didn't think of it at the time with what seemed like a legit fault code at the time.

Other dealers are 30+ miles away in the next (large) town in farm country here and would have been a lot more fun to try to get a ride home from, so I took the one in-town < 5 miles away.

 

[jbooth]

And their 1 EV tech is on vacation (international) until at least next week. Plus he has other work to finish first when he's back. Fabulous. I should have just abandoned the car overnight in the store parking lot and dealt with it today. I could have known that in advance and potentially towed it to a different dealer, and probably even gotten a ride home (or a loaner).

 

[agoldman]

This is happening way too much. I feel really bad for you.

 

[Shayne]

Don't think it was a 12V issue. Not after it sucked the life out of two of them. It is something draining the 12V but not a 12V problem per say.

There is a thread here link

 

[jbooth]

Well at least they have a loaner for me (paid for by warranty and yes, I asked).

 

[Ford Motor Company]

Job 1 MME ("Jeeves") died tonight. Drove a few miles across town to a friend's for dinner. Stopped on the way home at a grocery store. When we came back out, car didn't power up normally. I pulled codes and got something (which I wasn't smart enough to write down) about a rear axle differential communication fault. Tried a power down then back up, same thing -- car boots but only into accessory mode.

Shut the car off. Got friends to take wife and kid home. App -> Roadside -> 2 hours later the 12 V is sufficiently dead when they arrive that the sync display drops into "screen off to conserve battery" before I can even get settings up to be able to shift into emergency tow mode. Tow company didn't know what to do with the frunk. I pulled two panels myself and they go, "that's good enough we can jump it from there." Hope they didn't do any damage by not jumping it on the battery itself. Winched up, dropped it at dealer. Even just that (plus one other jump start they did on the way) had their 12 V jump battery dead, so there was a pit stop at Walmart to grab another. Their first battery did hold out long enough to get me in e-tow at the dealer and we rolled back into a parking spot, but I couldn't shift to park. A friend who'd showed up to give me a ride was the jump power source to get it in park.

We've gotten a lot of "electrical system drain; see dealer" messages. Basically daily. No aftermarket stuff and the dealer couldn't find the source of the drain when I'd asked them to look a couple months ago (while it was in for bluecruise/unstick updates).

So yeah that was a fun 4-hour shit show where if it'd been my wife, it'd probably still be at Meijer. Wonder how many weeks it'll be before my dealer can get their EV tech (I think they have one) to look at it.

So, anyone want to place bets on what the root cause is? I sure hope it isn't the "rear axle diff comm fault" because refusing to connect the HV battery, and thus no A/C seems dangerous in if it happened in the southwest in summer. From the point of view of "that'd be a stupid design decision" I'm left with 12 V not getting charged properly, failed 12 V battery, or HVBJB.

Hi there – send a message to us with your VIN and approximate mileage, I’ll look into this for you. Thanks!

 

[Jimrpa]

Job 1 MME ("Jeeves") died tonight. Drove a few miles across town to a friend's for dinner. Stopped on the way home at a grocery store. When we came back out, car didn't power up normally. I pulled codes and got something (which I wasn't smart enough to write down) about a rear axle differential communication fault. Tried a power down then back up, same thing -- car boots but only into accessory mode.

Shut the car off. Got friends to take wife and kid home. App -> Roadside -> 2 hours later the 12 V is sufficiently dead when they arrive that the sync display drops into "screen off to conserve battery" before I can even get settings up to be able to shift into emergency tow mode. Tow company didn't know what to do with the frunk. I pulled two panels myself and they go, "that's good enough we can jump it from there." Hope they didn't do any damage by not jumping it on the battery itself. Winched up, dropped it at dealer. Even just that (plus one other jump start they did on the way) had their 12 V jump battery dead, so there was a pit stop at Walmart to grab another. Their first battery did hold out long enough to get me in e-tow at the dealer and we rolled back into a parking spot, but I couldn't shift to park. A friend who'd showed up to give me a ride was the jump power source to get it in park.

We've gotten a lot of "electrical system drain; see dealer" messages. Basically daily. No aftermarket stuff and the dealer couldn't find the source of the drain when I'd asked them to look a couple months ago (while it was in for bluecruise/unstick updates).

So yeah that was a fun 4-hour shit show where if it'd been my wife, it'd probably still be at Meijer. Wonder how many weeks it'll be before my dealer can get their EV tech (I think they have one) to look at it.

So, anyone want to place bets on what the root cause is? I sure hope it isn't the "rear axle diff comm fault" because refusing to connect the HV battery, and thus no A/C seems dangerous in if it happened in the southwest in summer. From the point of view of "that'd be a stupid design decision" I'm left with 12 V not getting charged properly, failed 12 V battery, or HVBJB.

Professor Plum in the drawing room with the candelabra!
Oh wait! Wrong game!

 

[HuntingPudel]

Since you did not get a SSN or SVS and there was mention of a rear drivetrain fault, I am betting it’s not the HVBJB. The 12V going flat is likely due to the car sitting and having accessories on and not due to a fault in the 12V charging system. Is your car a Job1 without a lot of updates? ?‍?

 

[jbooth]

Is Job 1 but believed to be "fully" updated. At least, it has everything bluecruise and the unstick-the-stuck-updates and took OTA for 22P41 or whatever the HVBJB recall number is. Too lazy to look it up right now.

I had the car off while waiting for the tow, so there shouldn't be any accessories draining it. No lights on, I was hanging out in the dark parking lot in a dark car. I don't know how low the battery was when I got the first failed-to-start coming out of the store. I could have read it off the OBDII but didn't think to do so.

I'd tend to agree it doesn't sounds like the standard contractors failure, although it seems like the 12V wasn't getting charged properly, which makes me wonder about the DC-DC accessories contactor.

The rental (Lincoln mkc) I got has been named boaty-mc-float-face because driving it on the sometimes pothole-y streets feels like I'm driving an inner tube down the lazy river at a water park. Thump-but-no-bump-followed-by-undulate-undulate-undulate-undulate.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Is Job 1 but believed to be "fully" updated. At least, it has everything bluecruise and the unstick-the-stuck-updates and took OTA for 22P41 or whatever the HVBJB recall number is. Too lazy to look it up right now.

I had the car off while waiting for the tow, so there shouldn't be any accessories draining it. No lights on, I was hanging out in the dark parking lot in a dark car. I don't know how low the battery was when I got the first failed-to-start coming out of the store. I could have read it off the OBDII but didn't think to do so.

I'd tend to agree it doesn't sounds like the standard contractors failure, although it seems like the 12V wasn't getting charged properly, which makes me wonder about the DC-DC accessories contactor.

The rental (Lincoln mkc) I got has been named boaty-mc-float-face because driving it on the sometimes pothole-y streets feels like I'm driving an inner tube down the lazy river at a water park. Thump-but-no-bump-followed-by-undulate-undulate-undulate-undulate.

I guess my guess was wrong. Sounds like it’s at the dealer, so they can pull codes and figure it out. ??

Everyone used to call my 1069 Cadillac a boat. It was the small Cadillac (Coupe de Ville) if you don’t count the FWD model (Eldorado). It was so massive that most pot holes would make a thump noise but the car would not get upset. No floating, no insulation, no nothing. Compare that to my Trans Am with the metal on Delrin on metal suspension bearings and metal subframe bushings that make small tar seams a bone-jarring experience (still no float or undulating). ??

 

[Mach-Lee]

I'd agree it was a 12 V issue, but if so, why when the plugged in the jump pack would the car not start up normally? It was enough to get to accessory mode (so I could put up the window and use the settings menu to enable emergency tow). I guess their jump pack could have been low, maybe I should have tried a jump off a running car when our rescue driver came? Oh well, didn't think of it at the time with what seemed like a legit fault code at the time.

Because those jump packs aren't powerful enough. It's very common to hear they don't work on the Mach-E. The Mach-E actually draws a ton of power for all the modules while starting up, most of those little jump packs don't have enough power long enough to do the job. You really have to jump from another running vehicle. The hungry dead AGM will suck them dry in a hurry like a vampire.

Since I don't hear anything about a stop safely now or a service vehicle soon error I'm inclined to believe you have some kind of 12V battery issue only (such as a shorted cell).

 

[jbooth]

Because those jump packs aren't powerful enough. It's very common to hear they don't work on the Mach-E. The Mach-E actually draws a ton of power for all the modules while starting up, most of those little jump packs don't have enough power long enough to do the job. You really have to jump from another running vehicle. The hungry dead AGM will suck them dry in a hurry like a vampire.

Since I don't hear anything about a stop safely now or a service vehicle soon error I'm inclined to believe you have some kind of 12V battery issue only (such as a shorted cell).

The final of three jump starts was from a running 2003 Hyundai 4-banger. MME still wouldn't actually "start".

Also, interestingly, my ford pass won't start anymore. Just sits there at the Ford logo while "loading".

It seems very strange to draw a ton of power for the modules. I mean... I'm a software engineer and I build my own gaming PCs from parts. I have for long enough my first gaming PC (that I don't own anymore, but...) could legally drink. I have a UPS in my setup which isn't much more than a big old 12V lead-acid battery and an inverter. Sure if I'm gaming I'll have a 5-10 minute run time, but if it is just idle it'll be more like 30+ at a 200W draw. And that's a desktop PC with a power-hungry GPU, two displays, the router, dsl modem, desk lamp, ...

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