Tesla refuses $6.4M funding from California due to requirement of accepting payment via credit card...

[dbsb3233]

Let me see if I understand your argument? You’re saying that, because Tesla has developed a very low cost model, nobody else should bother even trying to come up with a competitive model? I’m pretty sure that was the economic model for consumer products that the Soviet Union used. It didn’t appear to be tenable for them in the long run.
Perhaps I’m missing something here?

No idea how you concluded that. Absolutely not. I was only talking about Tesla turning down the CA subsidy rather than change the hardware & design that's working so well for them. That has nothing to do with what other networks do. I only referenced other networks to say that Tesla seems to have found a way to do it much cheaper, and thus doesn't seem to need the subsidy to make it work.

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[superdave80]

Would probably cost them more money to put in credit card readers and pay credit card transaction fees

Don't they still have to pay CC fees when you refill your Tesla account to pay for supercharging? I doubt people are sending cash or checks to Tesla for charging fees.

 

[superdave80]

To everybody claiming that CC readers on chargers is too expensive/unreliable/etc., I'd just like to point out that CC readers are EVERYWHERE. Even the vending machines that I use, and that's to purchase things like $1 candy bars. If a low-cost item like that can afford a CC reader, then EV chargers can manage to use them as well.

 

[Socalsp3]

Don't they still have to pay CC fees when you refill your Tesla account to pay for supercharging? I doubt people are sending cash or checks to Tesla for charging fees.

im sure Tesla gets a discount for using a particular cc company. kinda like those store credit cards like macys and target

 

[dbsb3233]

To everybody claiming that CC readers on chargers is too expensive/unreliable/etc., I'd just like to point out that CC readers are EVERYWHERE. Even the vending machines that I use, and that's to purchase things like $1 candy bars. If a low-cost item like that can afford a CC reader, then EV chargers can manage to use them as well.

I don't think it's that they're too expensive if one were starting from scratch, I think it's that Tesla has perfected their current SCs already. They have a design and process that's so efficient that they shattered the high cost barrier on DCFC.

It would take a design change to properly incorporate a card reader in the charger itself. Perhaps they'll do that on the next generation of chargers, but for the V3's they're installing all over the US at record pace it would be like adding a card reader to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Yeah, one could be slapped on, but it's sloppy and not what it was optimized for. And adds maintenance. Probably not terribly dependable either. I think at least a third of the vending machine card readers I've used over the years have failed to work when used. Their dependability has been worse than Electrify America in my experience.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

The credit card reader technology on gas pumps is over 100 years old? That’s interesting given that the earliest precursors to credit cards were developed in the 1930s and the magnetic swipe for credit cards wasn’t developed until the 1960s by IBM.
My point has consistently been that the builders of EV chargers should have WORKING (not just “decorative”) credit card readers on them - just like gas pumps. I was in Baltimore at a so-called “fast charger” a couple of months ago and between downloading the app, registering, getting the MFA pin and confirming it, it took me about 15 minutes before I could even try to start a charging session. And this was at “Joe’s EV Chargers”, not an actual, real network, so I’m not likely to ever use that stupid charger again.

Tesla has figured the DCFC thing. With their car, you just plug in and it charges right away. I'm sure their system is much more reliable than the other players. We'll see how their app works with non Tesla. Within a few months, we'll see if there is widespread failure or not.

 

[Jimrpa]

No idea how you concluded that. Absolutely not. I was only talking about Tesla turning down the CA subsidy rather than change the hardware & design that's working so well for them. That has nothing to do with what other networks do. I only referenced other networks to say that Tesla seems to have found a way to do it much cheaper, and thus doesn't seem to need the subsidy to make it work.

Just reread your post and I see your point.
I don’t know the details of the CA deal but, I’d you don’t have to refit existing chargers, it seems like something to look into for future installations. Anyway, the issue doesn’t impact me - I don’t have a Tesla. (Yes, I know they are rolling out magic dock chargers. I’m speaking only of my desire to avoid yet another charging app.)

 

[Jimrpa]

Tesla has figured the DCFC thing. With their car, you just plug in and it charges right away. I'm sure their system is much more reliable than the other players. We'll see how their app works with non Tesla. Within a few months, we'll see if there is widespread failure or not.

You are missing my point - I don’t want to clutter my phone with more apps. I don’t want to distribute my personal and credit card information more widely. I don’t need Wawa’s app to start and use their gas pumps. Why do I need Tesla’s (or anyone’s) app to start and use their chargers? We’re going to end up with all these incompatible “walled gardens”.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

You are missing my point - I don’t want to clutter my phone with more apps. I don’t want to distribute my personal and credit card information more widely. I don’t need Wawa’s app to start and use their gas pumps. Why do I need Tesla’s (or anyone’s) app to start and use their chargers? We’re going to end up with all these incompatible “walled gardens”.

I get it. More options to pay is always better, except for it leads to more point of failure. Tesla would not only have to install the reader, it would also have to install screens to display charging info, printers to print out receipts. This means that people would have to be hired to maintain the charger, change out the paper, etc. This all leads to increase cost.

I see a standard in the near future, where your car is coded (like tesla is now) where plug and play will work with all charging stations.

 

[Jimrpa]

I get it. More options to pay is always better, except for it leads to more point of failure. Tesla would not only have to install the reader, it would also have to install screens to display charging info, printers to print out receipts. This means that people would have to be hired to maintain the charger, change out the paper, etc. This all leads to increase cost.

I see a standard in the near future, where your car is coded (like tesla is now) where plug and play will work with all charging stations.

I am not sure much of the ancillary stuff you mention is needed. I think card readers/receipt printers are available as an integrated package, with a one-line display of amount of transaction and directions. There’s no need for anything further as far as displays go. Charging info is available in the vehicle and, if not - tough luck. And you could always go with readers that don’t print receipts - like those on soda vending machines. Heck, when I buy something using self-checkout at an Apple Store, I don’t get a receipt and I don’t think you get receipts at Amazon Fresh.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I am not sure much of the ancillary stuff you mention is needed. I think card readers/receipt printers are available as an integrated package, with a one-line display of amount of transaction and directions. There’s no need for anything further as far as displays go. Charging info is available in the vehicle and, if not - tough luck. And you could always go with readers that don’t print receipts - like those on soda vending machines. Heck, when I buy something using self-checkout at an Apple Store, I don’t get a receipt and I don’t think you get receipts at Amazon Fresh.

you may not need receipts, but people that use their cards may want them to make sure their card company don't over charge, or for business expense, etc.

As far as screens, its not just how fast you're charging, but also how much electricity you bought. Imagine going to a gas station without a meter. You just insert your card, pump, and hope that it charged you correctly when you get your statement at the end of the month. Most people would find it unacceptable.

 

[Jimrpa]

you may not need receipts, but people that use their cards may want them to make sure their card company don't over charge, or for business expense, etc.

As far as screens, its not just how fast you're charging, but also how much electricity you bought. Imagine going to a gas station without a meter. You just insert your card, pump, and hope that it charged you correctly when you get your statement at the end of the month. Most people would find it unacceptable.

I see your points but, just to play devil’s advocate, Tesla owners today are satisfied without a display on the charger. Why would they demand a display if the charger had a credit card reader? The only thing that’s changing is the payment method?

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I see your points but, just to play devil’s advocate, Tesla owners today are satisfied without a display on the charger. Why would they demand a display if the charger had a credit card reader? The only thing that’s changing is the payment method?

Because Tesla owner have an account (app) where they can look up how much they're charge and how much electricity they bought).

your point was that you didn't want an app. So the only way to get that info is a screen, and a paper receipt to document what you bought.

 

[MachKet]

Will be interesting to see if they will continue on with building these proposed stations. They have a solid stance from a business perspective on not including the credit card readers.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

I get it. More options to pay is always better, except for it leads to more point of failure. Tesla would not only have to install the reader, it would also have to install screens to display charging info, printers to print out receipts. This means that people would have to be hired to maintain the charger, change out the paper, etc. This all leads to increase cost.

I see a standard in the near future, where your car is coded (like tesla is now) where plug and play will work with all charging stations.

I went to a POS automatic carwash / self serve dog wash yesterday. Half the time something at this carwash is broken, or the dryer doesn’t work. It’s $5 though and close to my house, so it’s good in a pinch to get the salt off. You know what always works though? The tap-to-pay credit card reader. It has never failed to take my money, even if the carwash itself leaves something to be desired.

This isnt a problem. Tesla could install ONE terminal at each supercharger location that is basically an embedded computer that runs their app with card reader. You select the stall to activate. Boom, done. If Joe Schmo’s car wash and dog wash can pull it off reliably, so can Tesla and every DCFC out there.

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