kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
No Ford.ca is definetely wrong. From the calculator you can see the estimated car is 56000$, 48 months at 1200$ is 57600. Somebody fucked up. Thats finance for 48months price not lease. They screwed up the calculator.
Sponsored

 

JellyBelly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kris
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
2,481
Reaction score
1,937
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
MME RR FE
Country flag
Lots of interesting discussion in this and similar threads.

I am wondering if anyone has contacted their ford dealer for real numbers on the leasing side yet?
I have not yet enquired, my car wont be delivered at least until end of January at best, so have time - but just wondering what the response has been if any at all.
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
By your calculations and by FredT's calculations there must be something very wrong on our side of the border cause i can get 2 model Y's for 1 MME according to Fords calculator and its not exagerating. The MME leaee with my EV credit is 1400$ a month vs 850 for an MY
Here are the screen shots. Maybe they will help. Note that the Tesla lease includes the CA Clean Air Rebate of $1500 so that is reflected in the down for the MME Options.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced Ford Options MME
Ford Mustang Mach-E Mach-E Financing and RCL Leasing Program Announced Tesla Lease
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
Lots of interesting discussion in this and similar threads.

I am wondering if anyone has contacted their ford dealer for real numbers on the leasing side yet?
Answer was "not at this time". Two weeks. But we have some other info which suggests all/some/part of the credit is applied to the residual.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Answer was "not at this time". Two weeks. But we have some other info which suggests all/some/part of the credit is applied to the residual.
Yes with that 900$+tx cdn seems right not the 1400 im getting.
 


DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
No Ford.ca is definetely wrong. From the calculator you can see the estimated car is 56000$, 48 months at 1200$ is 57600. Somebody fucked up. Thats finance for 48months price not lease. They screwed up the calculator.
Ha ha ha on me. Missed that obvious point. Got lost in the trees and missed the forest.

Good catch.
 

JTK44

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
212
Reaction score
109
Location
11050
Vehicles
2021 First Edition Rapid Red
Country flag
I see a problem with people bitching about things when they have no reasonable basis to bitch.

1. You have arrogated to yourself the right to decide which vehicles are similar. For several reason -- including ride and reliability -- I don't think the Model Y is all the competitive with the MME. You seem to think otherwise. That's fine because it's your money and you have a right to your opinion. But it's my money and I have a right to my opinion, so stop trying to force your opinion on me.

Interesting: When did you drive the MME and make the determination that the ride is superior to the Model Y? When I was at the dealer last Thursday for viewing the MME, I was not allowed to drive the MME.

Reliability: This is an assumption not a fact. As far as I know, please correct me if I am wrong, no MME have yet to hit the market. Until they do, we have no idea of their reliability.



2. The corollary is that bitching about the terms and conditions of the sale is a waste of time. The cold reality is that Ford gets to set the terms of a sale and you are free to to take it or not. If you think the Model Y is a better deal, get it. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to get a MME. No purpose is served, including helping your mental state, by your continued bitching about something over which you have no control. Everyone understands that you want to pay less. Me too.


Actually there is a purpose: It helps inform others by way of comparison of the lease and/or option plan of the MME to other cars both ICE and EV's.

I fully understand that if you are totally committed to the MME without ever having driven it and are not concerned about the monthly payments under a lease or the option plan as compared to other cars, then these comparisons are irrelevant.


3. On the specifics of the bitching, as mentioned ad nauseam, a contract residual and the FMV at the end of the lease are not the same things. If you think you will want to keep the car then you want a low residual. If you don't then you want a high residual. But in neither case does the residual necessarily reflect FMV at the end of the lease.


You of course know that residuals are based upon what Ford Financial credit's best estimate of the FMV of the MME will be at the end of the lease..

Now residuals may be "tweaked" a little to the high side to reduce monthly payments. The difference between the residual and FMV is covered by GAP insurance.

On the other hand no one trying to sell cars intentionally reduces the residual to below what they anticipate the FMV will be at the end of the lease.

The reason is simple: the lower the residual the higher the monthly payment.

In the world I live in, lower monthly payments produce more sales than higher monthly payment.

So it strains credulity to assume that Ford is purposely setting the residual below what they assume the FMV will be at the end of the lease.

4. On the specifics of the bitching, if the tax credit is treated as a reduction in MSRP, which is what it is, then the residual in three years is 55% and in four years 45%. That seems fair and hardly objectionable.


Let's check your math:

The premium AWD LR has a MSRP of $55,800. The Three year residual is projected to be 41%, $22878. .

Reduce the selling price by the Federal Tax Credit, $7,500 to $48,300.

A residual of $22,878 on a cost basis of $48,300 is a residual of 47%.

Would you please set forth the numbers you used to arrive at a 55% residual.

Thanks.



5. On the specifics of the bitching, the "lease" payment on a Model Y is not all the different from a lease payment on a MME. Seems to be less than fifty bucks (if you subtract out the incentives included for both the Model Y and the MME). And that is before you include the hands free driving option. Do that and the Model Y payments are more than the MME payments plus the hands free driving subscription.

Once again lets check your math:

Model Y:

A 36 month lease, 10K miles per year, on a Model Y, with ZERO money down, is $633 dollars;

see: https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#battery

MME Premium AWD LR:

In calculating the lease payment I will assume the following as actual residuals and MF have not been published:

  • Residual of 41%
  • MF of .0001042 which equals 2.5%
  • Put the entire Federal Tax credit of $7,500 into the lease as a cap cost reduction
The monthly payments come to: $780

See: https://www.leaseguide.com/mobcalc/#result

To me a difference of $147 - is not "less than fifty bucks" as you wrote.

But to those of us that pay sales tax, there is an additional expense.

Sales tax is calculated on the sum of the lease payments plus any cap cost reduction:

Model Y:

$633, 36 months, $22788 @8.625% = $1966

MME:

$780, 36 months, $29080 @ 8.625% = $2421
Fed Tax credit, $7.500 @ 8.625% = $ 647
Total sales tax $3068

There is additional sales of $1102, or $31 a month.

In total the MME is $178 a month more than the Model Y:

Please note:

In my calculations, I gave links to the sites where I obtain the information.

It would be really helpful if you did the same.






6. On the specifics of the bitching, you have far more options with the MME. If the payments on a Premium with AWD and an extended battery are too high, go with a CA Route 1 or a Premium with a standard battery. The payments will be less. Nice you have those "options"..
This is really misleading.

When we compare apples to apples the lease and/or option plan for the Premium LR AWD is not competitive with the Model Y.

We could compare the Model 3 SR RWD to the MME Premium LR AWD and difference in payments would be even greater.


7. On whether the Model Y is comparable to the MME, there are advantages in not leasing the least reliable vehicle on the market. I don't want to be bothered taking a new car in to get a door adjusted, much less having to put up with multiple attempts to fix a door that doesn't work.
Wow!

Actually the opposite is true: If you are worried about the reliability of car why would you:

  • even consider it
  • But if you do you certainly want to lease it and not own it!

One of the reasons to lease is that if you are not satisfied with a car and want to get rid of it at the end of a lease you are protected on the depreciation.

When you own, you have no protection on depreciation and certainly would not want to own a car that because of reliability has a plummeting resale value.




.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Just to confirm your numbers and exchange do work
Ha ha ha on me. Missed that obvious point. Got lost in the trees and missed the forest.

Good catch.
Its my fault. I went bananas when i saw the 1400 i forgot to check the details.
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
Let's check your math:

The premium AWD LR has a MSRP of $55,800. The Three year residual is projected to be 41%, $22878. .

Reduce the selling price by the Federal Tax Credit, $7,500 to $48,300.

A residual of $22,878 on a cost basis of $48,300 is a residual of 47%.

Would you please set forth the numbers you used to arrive at a 55% residual.

...

Once again lets check your math:

Model Y:

A 36 month lease, 10K miles per year, on a Model Y, with ZERO money down, is $633 dollars;

see: https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#battery

MME Premium AWD LR:

In calculating the lease payment I will assume the following as actual residuals and MF have not been published:

  • Residual of 41%
  • MF of .0001042 which equals 2.5%
  • Put the entire Federal Tax credit of $7,500 into the lease as a cap cost reduction
The monthly payments come to: $780
I am not gong to bother checking your math because it can't possibly be right. Just look above at the screenshots I've posted. The MME Options price is actually LESS than the Model Y lease.

End. Of. Story. Unless you want to tell me why those numbers are wrong. Have at it.
 

JTK44

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
212
Reaction score
109
Location
11050
Vehicles
2021 First Edition Rapid Red
Country flag
Where I am not only is it "close", the MME is likely/actually less.

Here are the specifics:

1. Directly from Tesla's website: The Model Y lease for 3 years 10K miles is $479/month with $4500 down and including the $1500 Clean Rebate. So $479/month with $6000 down.

2. Directly from the Ford website: The options payment for the MME Premium AWD with Extended Battery with $13,500 down (that's Tesla's $6000 down plus the $7500 tax credit) and a three year term is $497.82.

That's less than $20. Take into account the X-plan discount, which you can get if you have a pulse, and the MME Options payment is likely less than the Model Y's $479.00.

Hope I never have to use you accountant! ? Kidding aside, I don't know why you think the payments are all that different.

Wow:

Your fuzzy math again:



Do not know what you are doing as you once again fail to give a link to verify your numbers;

Here is the link to Tesla:

see: https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#battery

The monthly payment with no money down is $633 a month.

Here is the link to the option plan for the Premium LR AWD.

see: https://www.ford.com/buy/mach-e/bui...owertrain=DR--F_EN-EJ_HTHAD_TR-WA&paint=PNZAT

The monthly payment with $7,500 down, Federal Tax credit is $749 a month

End of story!
 

JTK44

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
212
Reaction score
109
Location
11050
Vehicles
2021 First Edition Rapid Red
Country flag
I am not gong to bother checking your math because it can't possibly be right. Just look above at the screenshots I've posted. The MME Options price is actually LESS than the Model Y lease.

End. Of. Story. Unless you want to tell me why those numbers are wrong. Have at it.
Numbers do not lie.

I have set forth the links to verify my numbers.

You refuse to.

I am confident that members on this forum are intelligent enough to decide which numbers, verified or unverified are correct.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
At this point i believe we all need to wait until we get to the dealer. We cannot trust Fords numbers 100%. Mine were fudged so any numbers you may get might also fudged. tp @DBC thank you. This y i wanted everybody's opinion cause there must have been something i was missing.
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
Numbers do not lie.

I have set forth the links to verify my numbers.
Given that your links just take me to the configuration pages, which then leads me to exactly the numbers I've previously posted, I'm not overwhelmed.

Your claim that I haven't posted my numbers suggests you haven't bothered to look at them. In this regard these are not MY numbers. They are Tesla's numbers and Ford's numbers.

Post the images of the estimates like I've done and I can probably tell you where you went wrong. But you are clearly going to be wrong. The Model Y is $49,990 with $1500 of credits and the MME is $54,700 with a $9000 of credits. Would not seem to be a mystery as to which is going to be cheaper.
 
Last edited:

JTK44

Banned
Banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
212
Reaction score
109
Location
11050
Vehicles
2021 First Edition Rapid Red
Country flag
Given that your links just take me to the configuration pages, which then leads me to exactly the numbers I've previously posted, I'm not overwhelmed.

Your claim that I haven't posted my numbers suggests you haven't bothered to look at them. In this regard these are not MY numbers. They are Tesla's numbers and Ford's numbers.

Post the images of the estimates like I've done and I can probably tell you where you went wrong. But you are clearly going to be wrong. The Model Y is $49,990 with $1500 of credits and the MME is $54,700 with a $9000 of credits. Would not seem to be a mystery as to which is going to be cheaper.
You are not correct.

You have not put in the correct numbers.

The correct numbers are:

Down payment: Zero
Mileage: 10,000
Term: 36 months
Payment: $633

see attachment

All of us on this thread are still waiting for you to post the link to your numbers.
 

Attachments

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
1,428
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
You are not correct.

You have not put in the correct numbers.
I have posted the numbers. No idea why you can't follow the calculations. They are fairly standard.

I do have some questions about whether you understand leasing. For example, you say to use $0 down. That's nice but since I'm relying on the Tesla site, and it doesn't have an obvious way to do this, that doesn't seem possible. Likewise I haven't been able to find where on the Tesla site it lays out the residual, which means I can't use a lease calculator.

Now I could reverse engineer this but it's hardly worth the bother. It's simply easier to take Tesla's downpayment, add $9000 to it (which covers the $1500 credit Tesla uses and the $7500 credit you don't get with a Tesla), and then use that number, which is $13500 in the Ford calculator as the downpayment. (If you don't understand why this works perfectly when comparing the two monthlies then there probably isn't any reason to continue discussing this).

When I do that the Tesla site reports the monthly as $479 and the Ford site reports the monthly as $497. You can see these reports, which I've posted above, if you bother to look rather than posting links to blank sites or meaningless spreadsheets.

Now there are two possible issues with these numbers. One is that the Tesla site makes it very difficult to understand where the numbers come from and what they include. In particular it mixes in "savings" from not buying gas and who knows what else with government incentives, making it hard to know exactly what you are looking at. As best I can determine, the $479 number reported includes the CA Clean Air rebate but not the "savings", though it's possible that the CA rebate is not included. This would effect reduction in the lease payments by $42/month. Offsetting this of course is that the Ford numbers don't include X-Plan pricing which would reduce the Ford monthly.

Essentially, at the end of the day the monthly payments will be the same but your option to buy will be priced far more favorably with Ford Options. IOW Ford Options is a clear winner for reasons which hopefully are obvious. If you are plugging numbers into a calculator and getting something significantly different then you should put the calculator away. It really isn't all that complicated. All you need to know is that the MME is less expensive from the get-go.
Sponsored

 
 




Top