Ford hits the brakes on $12 billion in EV spending in KY

[Blue highway]

I think the MX-30 is classified as a range extender system. It's only 78HP from a 800cc rotary. I'm talking about pure serial hybrid where the ICE makes the electricity that powers the drivetrain. It doesn't need to be a plug-in.

having a battery buffer between the gas engine/generator and the electric motor allows the gas engine to be much smaller than it otherwise would have to be.

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[Blue highway]

Plug in hybrids are mostly never plugged in?

Where did you get that idea from?

There are always edge cases, but the industry consensus is that most plug in hybrid drivers rarely or never plug in.

https://insideevs.com/news/630341/plug-in-hybrids-arent-being-plugged-in-study/

 

[Mach1E]

There are always edge cases, but the industry consensus is that most plug in hybrid drivers rarely or never plug in.

https://insideevs.com/news/630341/plug-in-hybrids-arent-being-plugged-in-study/

Thanks for posting the link.

However, what you said and what that article says are VERY different.

You said “most rarely or never plug in.”

That’s absolutely FALSE.

The article says “many,” never says “most.” It also doesn’t say they “never” plug in.

It references this study-
https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-phev-us-dec22/

They use “self reported” fuel economy from fuelly.com, and because people get less than advertised EPA fuel economy, and that “may be” a result of not plugging in, but more data and analysis is necessary.

You said “industry consensus,” but that also isn’t true at all. Again, one study, self reported fuel economy, but no REAL data proving people don’t plug in.

Then there is common sense. I highly doubt people would purposefully do the less convenient and more expensive thing- go to the gas station.

Finally in the detailed report (page 19), they only make one conclusion- that “many PHEVs aren’t plugged in daily.”
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/real-world-phev-us-dec22.pdf

It’s an assumption, doesn’t say “most,” and definitely doesn’t say “never.”

 

[Blue highway]

Thanks for posting the link.

However, what you said and what that article says are VERY different.

You said “most rarely or never plug in.”

That’s absolutely FALSE.

The article says “many,” never says “most.” It also doesn’t say they “never” plug in.

It references this study-
https://theicct.org/publication/real-world-phev-us-dec22/

They use “self reported” fuel economy from fuelly.com, and because people get less than advertised EPA fuel economy, and that “may be” a result of not plugging in, but more data and analysis is necessary.

You said “industry consensus,” but that also isn’t true at all. Again, one study, self reported fuel economy, but no REAL data proving people don’t plug in.

Then there is common sense. I highly doubt people would purposefully do the less convenient and more expensive thing- go to the gas station.

ok... lets flip this around... what evidence do you have that people actually plug these in?

None?
https://www.hotcars.com/never-charge-plug-in-hybrid-vehicles/

stories/studies saying the dont are easy to find.

 

[Mach1E]

ok... lets flip this around... what evidence do you have that people actually plug these in?

None?
https://www.hotcars.com/never-charge-plug-in-hybrid-vehicles/

stories/studies saying the dont are easy to find.

I read the full study and edited above.

Sorry, but it’s absolutely not “most,” nor “never.”

I’m not going to spend time proving unicorns don’t exist.

LOL at the latest “article,” it just says “research shows,” with no research. Might as well write a story that says “rumor has it…..”

 

[Blue highway]

I read the full study and edited above.

Sorry, but it’s absolutely not “most,” nor “never.”

I’m not going to spend time proving unicorns don’t exist.

LOL at the latest “article,” it just says “research shows,” with no research. Might as well write a story that says “rumor has it…..”

Again what evidence do you have outside anecdotes?

 

[ChasingCoral]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing any homeowner with a PHEV wouldn’t plug it in.

People are cheap and lazy. And plugging it in is cheaper and lazier than going to a gas station.

I don't. Some folks don't have garages or even parking adjacent to a plug. Some states give you HOV lane and other advantages when you drive a PHEV, even when burning nothing but gas.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't. Some folks don't have garages or even parking adjacent to a plug. Some states give you HOV lane and other advantages when you drive a PHEV, even when burning nothing but gas.

That's why we need to separate those who can't easily charge every night from those who can. Obviously those who can't (because they don't park where it's possible or easy) aren't going to plug in. But they wouldn't buy a BEV either, for the same reason.

But of those that can easily plug in nightly, it's just throwing money away not to. Doesn't mean some people don't throw money away, of course, but most people are motivated by saving money. For the typical American that has a home and garage where they park the car nightly, I'd be very surprised if the vast majority don't take advantage of the cost savings.

 

[Mach1E]

Again what evidence do you have outside anecdotes?

You made the statement that most people never plug in their PHEV, and the only evidence you have definitely does NOT draw that conclusion.

Instead it concludes that “many don’t plug in daily.”

The evidence is in the proof you posted.

 

[Mach1E]

I don't. Some folks don't have garages or even parking adjacent to a plug. Some states give you HOV lane and other advantages when you drive a PHEV, even when burning nothing but gas.

I’m sure some don’t plug in daily(just like the study concluded.)

What I don’t believe is that most never plug in like the other guy posted.

The simplest thing about the first statement “some and daily,” is that it’s so generic that is has to be true.

Some people eat hamburgers for breakfast daily (true). ?

But if I read the above statement and then posted “most people eat hamburgers for breakfast…..” would I really have any basis to make this statement? And then when questioned, would I tell people “prove it wrong?” ?

And it’s not just semantics.

Many doesn’t mean most.

“not daily” definitely doesn’t mean “never.”

 

[ChasingCoral]

I’m sure some don’t plug in daily(just like the study concluded.)

What I don’t believe is that most never plug in like the other guy posted.

The simplest thing about the first statement “some and daily,” is that it’s so generic that is has to be true.

Some people eat hamburgers for breakfast daily (true). ?

But if I read the above statement and then posted “most people eat hamburgers for breakfast…..” would I really have any basis to make this statement? And then when questioned, would I tell people “prove it wrong?” ?

And it’s not just semantics.

Many doesn’t mean most.

“not daily” definitely doesn’t mean “never.”

 

[Blue highway]

I’m sure some don’t plug in daily(just like the study concluded.)

What I don’t believe is that most never plug in like the other guy posted.

The simplest thing about the first statement “some and daily,” is that it’s so generic that is has to be true.

Some people eat hamburgers for breakfast daily (true). ?

But if I read the above statement and then posted “most people eat hamburgers for breakfast…..” would I really have any basis to make this statement? And then when questioned, would I tell people “prove it wrong?” ?

And it’s not just semantics.

Many doesn’t mean most.

“not daily” definitely doesn’t mean “never.”

ahh very helpful I didn't realize till now that you were a troll

 

[Mach1E]

ahh very helpful I didn't realize till now that you were a troll

If logic doesn’t work, try insults! ?

 

[Mirak]

I was listening to Musk on one of Rogan’s latest podcasts. Always interesting. They talked a lot about the cyber truck.

Rogan asked Musk specifically about limitations with current battery technology. It sounds like he knows the price/range/charging drawbacks we’ve been discussing here. Musk simply responded, a few times, that “range is no longer a concern.”

Well. I agree that range is the least of the three big concerns now. But this ignores the problems with charging speed and cost. Musk painted an overly rosy picture of charging speed, but did at one point acknowledge the charging curve.

I was a bit disappointed that Musk was not more honest about the limitations of current battery tech. I’d love to know what he knows about next gen batteries.

But I can’t say I blame him for dodging the issue. His job (among others) is to sell Teslas, and he could easily tank the stock price by encouraging people to delay purchasing EVs until the battery tech improves.

Interesting interview.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

"range is longer a concern" could mean many things. Does he mean that the cybertruck will have >400 real world mileage range? or is that the charging is on par with refilling ICE?

I always said that we people are mistaking range anxiety for recharging anxiety. People have range anxiety because the charging network is not reliable and recharging stations are not ubiquitous. 250-300mile range is more than enough if you were assured that there was a recharging station every few miles.

I think this is what Musk is referring to when he says that range is no longer an issue. That with the big contract with BP, they will have plenty of Superchargers for people to not worry about being stuck in the middle of nowhere without a supercharger nearby.

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