Ford reports Q4 earnings and Farley reveals new small affordable EV Platform being developed by skunkworks team

[1969Camaro]

Toyota Rav4 Prime is almost what you stated.

Correct! Except Toyota limits production of those vehicles to 5000 units per year or less AND you can only purchase from certain states. I tried to buy a RAV4 Prime in AZ. You can't. I tried to buy from a california dealer, they don't sell out of state.

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[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
I love walking around the parking lot at work and seeing all these massive pick up trucks with hitches that have never been used or Jeep Wranglers that have never been off road in their life
<SNIP>

And then there is my K/5, complete with off-roading scars. ??

 

[dbsb3233]

My guess is these will be all new EV-only models with very different architectures, thus won't be EV versions of any ICE models.

Might share a name, perhaps, but like the Mustang Mach-E and the ICE Mustang, really be entirely different vehicles.

 

[SWO]

see the chart and a bunch more here: From December 2023... actuals are generally beating estimates at an industry wide level... specific car companies... not so much.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4661659-ev-company-news-for-the-month-of-december-2023

Agree, Tesla MY and M3 sales are up because of the price cuts and the tax credit flip flopping. The numbers aren't anywhere near the market share (I think that's what the Y axis was in your graph?) in your graph, though.

The main take-aways are that the growth of EVs at the expense of ICE cars is much more pronounced in China and Europe than in the US, but the growth curves are the same...

The Chinese are killing the European car makers... in 5-6 years they could be past the point of no return... we shall see...

Keeping the Chinese out of the US auto industry is going to be mostly futile without entity targeted tariffs... because a car consists of hundreds of parts which are independently sourced... the expensive parts, battery, motor, controllers etc... can be built by Chinese company's in near shore locations where we have trade deals... Mexico... Canada etc.

We'll have to see. I tend to agree with you on Europe but I think the unions in particular would push for protectionist policies in the US...which frankly, I'm ok with.

 

[timbop]

Small cars are a small market. Safety regulations have changed so much, that we often require more space just to meet them. Infant carriers, rear facing child seats, etc. You can't just toss your kids and dog in the rear of a station wagon or pickup any more.

While you might see large vehicles sitting in an office parking lot that drove one person to the office, it does not mean that before/after work and on weekends, that large vehicle doesn't have other demands placed on it.

Here's my car size timeline:

• High school/college - Everyone is young and flexible. Somehow you can squeeze 10 people in a compact car.
• After college - Rarely more than one passenger. Just need room for the dog. Compact/sports car is big enough
• Home owner - need cargo capacity for yard stuff, furnishings, projects, etc
• Married - Now have these older humans called in laws that are not very flexible. Need to have enough leg room in the back seat for them (with 6'+ tall people in the front)
• New parents - The baby carrier needs more rear seat room than a full sized adult while still having a 6'+ tall person in the front seat. With a second child, you need space behind both front seats and can't use the center. Also need enough room in the trunk for the large stroller + anything you're buying while shopping
• Toddlers - need a rear facing seat. Takes almost as much room as the baby carrier
• Post toddler - need a front facing seat. Since it raises the seat level up, they need to have leg room where the front seats aren't designed to give leg room
• Booster seat - Finally, the kids can fit in most any rear seat. But they now need trunk space for their activities
• Kids are now old enough for vacations - need enough trunk space to fit 4 full sized suitcases to get to/from the airport (the MME does not fit 4 in the back)
• Teenage kids - as tall as adults. If they're going someplace with the parents, they're suddenly not as flexible as if they were in a car with their friends. They want adult sized leg room.

I tend to see a lot of the calls for smaller cars (even going so far as to call for banning large cars) coming from young adults. People that have not gone through certain stages in life where perspectives change along with your needs. There's a lot of tunnel vision of 'if I don't need that, why would anyone else?'.

Those are all good points, but I'm 58 and the Mach-E is the biggest car that has been "mine". Typically my wife has driven the "family car" and my cars were the second cars, I drove small cars because I like sporty. My list is: chevy spectrum (little rebranded isuzu), ice mustangs (3), saturn coupe, pontiac grand prix, ford focus, and now a Mach-E. I've put carseats and booster seats in a mustang (many, many times). I used my hatchback mustang like a compact truck: hauling 12 foot 2x10's, sod, junk, and all kinds of tools and construction material. My Mach-E has hauled chopped up trees, plenty of topsoil (in bags), and all kinds of building material as well.

Granted my wife's family cars have been mostly minivans, with a couple of Durangos thrown in for good measure. I finally got her to give up her last durango because it was a complete waste- she only ever drove herself anywhere, and the thing got 15 mpg. Now if I need 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall I just rent home depot's truck for an hour for $25.

Personally I don't like small vehicles. My MME is about as small as I want to go. Unless it is a sports car. Or a Lucid. Then maybe I would do smaller.

Yeah, my wife likes big vehicles too. I really like sporty cars, and I never felt like I really knew where the corners where in my wife's durangos. She did once have a fiero (before kids), and that thing was an absolute blast to drive.

 

[areacode413]

Develop a plug-in hybrid with 50 miles of range on all electric and 400 miles on fuel and Ford wouldn't be able to build enough of them.

Only if it’s the size of a f150 or explorer. You’re not a man unless you have to climb onto your vehicle like it was a Clydesdale. You still have to contend with the truckification of America which will not be easy.

 

[VaporTrails]

Small cars are a small market. Safety regulations have changed so much, that we often require more space just to meet them. Infant carriers, rear facing child seats, etc. You can't just toss your kids and dog in the rear of a station wagon or pickup any more.

While you might see large vehicles sitting in an office parking lot that drove one person to the office, it does not mean that before/after work and on weekends, that large vehicle doesn't have other demands placed on it.

Here's my car size timeline:

• High school/college - Everyone is young and flexible. Somehow you can squeeze 10 people in a compact car.
• After college - Rarely more than one passenger. Just need room for the dog. Compact/sports car is big enough
• Home owner - need cargo capacity for yard stuff, furnishings, projects, etc
• Married - Now have these older humans called in laws that are not very flexible. Need to have enough leg room in the back seat for them (with 6'+ tall people in the front)
• New parents - The baby carrier needs more rear seat room than a full sized adult while still having a 6'+ tall person in the front seat. With a second child, you need space behind both front seats and can't use the center. Also need enough room in the trunk for the large stroller + anything you're buying while shopping
• Toddlers - need a rear facing seat. Takes almost as much room as the baby carrier
• Post toddler - need a front facing seat. Since it raises the seat level up, they need to have leg room where the front seats aren't designed to give leg room
• Booster seat - Finally, the kids can fit in most any rear seat. But they now need trunk space for their activities
• Kids are now old enough for vacations - need enough trunk space to fit 4 full sized suitcases to get to/from the airport (the MME does not fit 4 in the back)
• Teenage kids - as tall as adults. If they're going someplace with the parents, they're suddenly not as flexible as if they were in a car with their friends. They want adult sized leg room.

I tend to see a lot of the calls for smaller cars (even going so far as to call for banning large cars) coming from young adults. People that have not gone through certain stages in life where perspectives change along with your needs. There's a lot of tunnel vision of 'if I don't need that, why would anyone else?'.

I feel personally attacked. I can name the cars I used to cross each of these gates.

I’m still keeping the 95” Acura Integra GS-R my wife and I bought new somewhere between stage 2 and 3. One of the first cars with VVT and just enough computer to chase the emissions boogeyman away.

 

[Fremont Kid]

Ford's financial results reward long-time shareholders like me. Whoopie!
I can envision an intermediate future of affordable hybrids as primary or secondary vehicles, augmented by BEVs that cost more. This will allow progress to fewer ICEs, greater efficience and less fossil fuel pollution. Can work for 2-car families.

 

[Dustus]

I was curious from the way Farley phrased the announcement whether this new car was actually going to be branded as a Ford at all. Sounded like a spinoff perhaps that they can skip the dealer network and sell directly to customers.

 

[kindofblue]

Toyota Rav4 Prime is almost what you stated.

And the Chevy Volt is too.

 

[leehinde]

An electric Ford Escape? The Escape-E? (I've been saving that one...) Or Edge? The Edge-E?

I'm here all week.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Small cars are a small market. Safety regulations have changed so much, that we often require more space just to meet them. Infant carriers, rear facing child seats, etc. You can't just toss your kids and dog in the rear of a station wagon or pickup any more.

While you might see large vehicles sitting in an office parking lot that drove one person to the office, it does not mean that before/after work and on weekends, that large vehicle doesn't have other demands placed on it.

Here's my car size timeline:

• High school/college - Everyone is young and flexible. Somehow you can squeeze 10 people in a compact car.
• After college - Rarely more than one passenger. Just need room for the dog. Compact/sports car is big enough
• Home owner - need cargo capacity for yard stuff, furnishings, projects, etc
• Married - Now have these older humans called in laws that are not very flexible. Need to have enough leg room in the back seat for them (with 6'+ tall people in the front)
• New parents - The baby carrier needs more rear seat room than a full sized adult while still having a 6'+ tall person in the front seat. With a second child, you need space behind both front seats and can't use the center. Also need enough room in the trunk for the large stroller + anything you're buying while shopping
• Toddlers - need a rear facing seat. Takes almost as much room as the baby carrier
• Post toddler - need a front facing seat. Since it raises the seat level up, they need to have leg room where the front seats aren't designed to give leg room
• Booster seat - Finally, the kids can fit in most any rear seat. But they now need trunk space for their activities
• Kids are now old enough for vacations - need enough trunk space to fit 4 full sized suitcases to get to/from the airport (the MME does not fit 4 in the back)
• Teenage kids - as tall as adults. If they're going someplace with the parents, they're suddenly not as flexible as if they were in a car with their friends. They want adult sized leg room.

I tend to see a lot of the calls for smaller cars (even going so far as to call for banning large cars) coming from young adults. People that have not gone through certain stages in life where perspectives change along with your needs. There's a lot of tunnel vision of 'if I don't need that, why would anyone else?'.

I'm in my late 20s, I, nor any of the people I know, are married, or have kids, nor do we plan to at any point. That's an extremely common trend with younger people these days. There's no point in moving into larger and larger vehicles with that demographic.

EV coupes and sedans are the ideal form factor for electric cars. They're low to the ground, light, and areodynamic. The perfect vehicle if your strategy is like Ford's, trying to go as far as possible on the smallest, and cheapest battery.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Electric Escape perhaps?

Maybe a bit smaller
https://electrek.co/2024/02/07/ford-unveil-all-electric-puma-gen-e/

 

[ChehRob]

Does anyone know how the Ford Maverick production is going, particularly the hybrid version. It can be such a great choice for so many. Also, the hybrid version should be, but is not, available AWD. Were it to have 50 miles range all electric it would become one of the most compelling vehicles ever made.

 

[Trick.Mach-E]

Develop a plug-in hybrid with 50 miles of range on all electric and 400 miles on fuel and Ford wouldn't be able to build enough of them.

My old Fusion would do 30 miles in EV mode and over 500 on the highway so Ford was not that far off from your goals. Plus Ford did this as an afterthought with the Fusion when they decided to make it a hybrid with the battery in the trunk. If they designed a sedan with the battery elsewhere it could be larger with more capacity.

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