Downgrading from 20" to 19" on GTPE for ride quality improvements

Secret Sauce

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With the Mach E ride, there are about 100 pages of threads describing the “bounciness.” It’s likely the same thing the OP is talking about.

Where it comes from? Underdamped suspension combined with limited suspension travel.

Tire changes can make the car ride stiffer or less stiff, but it won’t fix the bounce.

We can stiffen up the suspension to lessen the bounce but then the ride isn’t as soft.

What we really need is more suspension travel. But that isn’t an option.

Of the Mach E models, the GTPE that the OP has will have the least amount of bounce and smoothest ride.

But it’s still no Lincoln.

My wife’s Aviator has the base suspension and despite weighing the same as my GTPE….. it’s a night and day difference in ride quality. Not even close.

But it’s also a night and day difference in handling.
I am familiar with all the complaints, but having experienced none of these issues myself, I think they must be more prevalent in certain models. Perhaps this is also a function of expectations. I am happy the MME is no Lincoln. I've driven many of these freeway floaters over the years and hated every one of them.
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Mach1E

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That may have been true before the Rally trim.

Is it still true?
I’m guessing the Rally rides better now. But honestly not sure. Depends on how they lifted the car an inch. But it was true for the year of car the OP had.
 

Mach1E

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I am familiar with all the complaints, but having experienced none of these issues myself, I think they must be more prevalent in certain models. Perhaps this is also a function of expectations. I am happy the MME is no Lincoln. I've driven many of these freeway floaters over the years and hated every one of them.
I’m sure you actually have experienced all the same issues.

The difference is that they don’t bother you and/or you actually prefer how it rides.

But you liking it doesn’t help the OP unfortunately.
 

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I don't think suspension travel is what they got wrong.

I think they got the pitch wrong watch this video

Pitch isn’t the problem. Pitch is the positioning of the car rotated around the transverse axis. IOW, the height of the nose as compared with the tail. Dynamically, pitch is affected by braking, acceleration, and road inputs. Braking pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-dive into the suspension. Acceleration pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-squat into the suspension. Road input there is not much one can do about others than spring and damp the suspension properly. This is the problem. The dampers are not correct for the springs chosen. This causes the uncomfortable oscillation harmonics (bounciness) that people are experiencing. ??

I was thinking of uncontrolled oscillations the other day and was wondering if suspension engineers ever thought of making suspensions very expensive by designing them like valvetrains. Since each spring has its own resonant frequency, valvetrains damp those by using 2 or 3 unlike springs. Of course, using multiple springs in conjunction with dampers will be much more complex, but I bet the ride would be better. ??
 

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I don't think suspension travel is what they got wrong.

I think they got the pitch wrong watch this video

It’s also travel for some of us lucky ones. We used to have melted and moved pieces of road around here that were bigger than the tire sidewall. Finally they started milling those down, but not before I bent 3 wheels due to hitting those in different places around town.
The limited travel directly affects the ability to dampen. You can’t calm a big bump with 1 inch of dampening. They had to pick (because of costs) damped quicker small bumps or the bounce. They chose small. If they applied the amount of damping to the bounce needed to keep this car in check the little stuff would drive everyone nuts as it’d feel like driving in stilts. Now, cost wise a dual or triple rate damper (about $1k per shock) is the fix. They won’t do that so magnaride is the next best thing, although in all it’s also about $1k a shock with all supporting hardware.

Pudel has the right idea, though in practice it’d be the first production car like that under several hundred grand By pass shocks work kind of the same way by bypassing valves in a stroke. If I could get those Fox shocks to fit I got a guy for that ? we’d just make a new tube and valve set up for it. Should only be about $4k for the rears. Still doesn’t solve the front ?
 


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Pitch isn’t the problem. Pitch is the positioning of the car rotated around the transverse axis. IOW, the height of the nose as compared with the tail. Dynamically, pitch is affected by braking, acceleration, and road inputs. Braking pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-dive into the suspension. Acceleration pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-squat into the suspension. Road input there is not much one can do about others than spring and damp the suspension properly. This is the problem. The dampers are not correct for the springs chosen. This causes the uncomfortable oscillation harmonics (bounciness) that people are experiencing. ??

I was thinking of uncontrolled oscillations the other day and was wondering if suspension engineers ever thought of making suspensions very expensive by designing them like valvetrains. Since each spring has its own resonant frequency, valvetrains damp those by using 2 or 3 unlike springs. Of course, using multiple springs in conjunction with dampers will be much more complex, but I bet the ride would be better. ??
On a related note, I’m currently driving a loaner 2024 RWD ER.

It doesn’t seem to have the bounciness issue. Been driving it for a week and over speed bumps for example, no extra bounce.

Only thing I have to compare it to is my GTPE though so not sure if the 2024 is any different than previous years or if the RWD ER is setup differently.
 

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Pitch isn’t the problem. Pitch is the positioning of the car rotated around the transverse axis. IOW, the height of the nose as compared with the tail. Dynamically, pitch is affected by braking, acceleration, and road inputs. Braking pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-dive into the suspension. Acceleration pitch dynamics are controlled by designing anti-squat into the suspension. Road input there is not much one can do about others than spring and damp the suspension properly. This is the problem. The dampers are not correct for the springs chosen. This causes the uncomfortable oscillation harmonics (bounciness) that people are experiencing. ??

I was thinking of uncontrolled oscillations the other day and was wondering if suspension engineers ever thought of making suspensions very expensive by designing them like valvetrains. Since each spring has its own resonant frequency, valvetrains damp those by using 2 or 3 unlike springs. Of course, using multiple springs in conjunction with dampers will be much more complex, but I bet the ride would be better. ??
I am nowhere near the suspension expert you are my reason for thinking this is a factor is the forum members using stiffer rear shocks seems to tamp down some of the perceived bounciness. This is the way I understood pitch if the front is softer than the rear the driver will perceive the pitch less hence it makes the car feel less bouncy.
 

tuminatr

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On a related note, I’m currently driving a loaner 2024 RWD ER.

It doesn’t seem to have the bounciness issue. Been driving it for a week and over speed bumps for example, no extra bounce.

Only thing I have to compare it to is my GTPE though so not sure if the 2024 is any different than previous years or if the RWD ER is setup differently.
considerably less weight in the front is likely a huge contributor to the ride difference
 

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I’m sure you actually have experienced all the same issues.

The difference is that they don’t bother you and/or you actually prefer how it rides.

But you liking it doesn’t help the OP unfortunately.
I'm sure I have not, actually. Declaring this to be a defect of the car's design, and irrespective of the model, doesn't help anyone, either. In fact it seems you just admitted as much.
 

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I'm sure I have not, actually. Declaring this to be a defect of the car's design, and irrespective of the model, doesn't help anyone, either. In fact it seems you just admitted as much.
Maybe the RWD ER does ride different due to the weight difference. ?‍♂ Does explain what you’re noticing but no way to make the OP’s car lighter in the front.

People do note it’s noticeably worse for passengers in the rear seat, telling us it’s more of a rear suspension issue.
 

Secret Sauce

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Maybe the RWD ER does ride different due to the weight difference. ?‍♂ Does explain what you’re noticing but no way to make the OP’s car lighter in the front.

People do note it’s noticeably worse for passengers in the rear seat, telling us it’s more of a rear suspension issue.
Could be something to do with RWD vs. AWD, battery weight, or (my own theory), the profile of the tires. Some combination thereof seems entirely plausible. The MME wouldn't be the first car I've owned where the rear seat passengers complained of being bucked around, but then rear seats are often located right over the rear wheel wells, as they are in the MME.
 

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I have a Premium RWD. No need to work with the ride. It's fine.
You have several hundred pounds less weight in the front AND back. Which is why it's the best riding out of the bunch from the reports around here.
I'm still keeping and eye out for a std/rwd for my wife because of this.
 

tuminatr

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You have several hundred pounds less weight in the front AND back. Which is why it's the best riding out of the bunch from the reports around here.
I'm still keeping and eye out for a std/rwd for my wife because of this.
When you think about it this makes sense. The original reports say the MME was originally designed to be about a 200 horsepower front wheel drive compliance car so the suspension and the battery were designed for that application.
 

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I have a 1st Gen Ford compliance car as well. The Focus Electric was mostly a motor and some welded in battery supports with the 2 pc battery pack just wedged in where it fits. The suspension in that car doesn't appear to have been upgraded. The added weight in the car makes it fairly harsh but it's got 17 inch wheels with 225's and a 50 or 60 profile. I bought my MME thinking they MUST have fixes the ride, right? LOLOLOLOLOL Odd thing is they have fixes some of it. Where my FFE translates the ocean wave smooth streets i have into it wobbling all over the place, the wheel base in the MME actually removes that, some. Still required swaybars on the MME.

The EX MME"ssuffer from 1100+lb rear springs that can only move about 1.5 inches to control the car. So it's one hell of a pogo stick when it hits something bigger than 2.5'ish inches sharply.Even the Eibach's suffer from it because it's just an engineering limit of travel and weight. The Eibach springs really are targeting the 'every. single. bump. in. the. parking. lot. that.just.jars.you'. They still have to keep the car from bottoming out which puts the second stage back up around 1000lb+ per spring. The extra weight of the extra cells not being back there allowed ford to get to about 800lb springs if I remember right.
 
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Great insights from everyone—thanks for all the input so far!

I’m about to pull the trigger on some new wheels. My main concern is the small bumps and harsh impacts, which have been a bit of an issue. The bounciness does improve in Engage and Unbridled modes, so I’m hopeful that the combination of larger sidewalls and lighter wheels will help smooth things out even more. I am also looking into the sway bars and bushing option, but still trying to determine the best product for the GTPE.

Now, I’m just finalizing my decision on wheel and tire fitment. The stock setup is 245/45R20, giving me 4.3 inches of sidewall and a 28.7-inch diameter.

I’m considering switching to 19x8-inch wheels paired with one of the following:

  • 235/55R19 tires: Increases to 5.1-inch sidewall and a 29.2-inch overall diameter (1.7% increase)
  • 245/55R19 tires: Increases to 5.3-inch sidewall and a 29.6-inch overall diameter (3.1% increase)
I’m leaning toward the 245 width to maintain the same width as stock and take advantage of the even taller sidewall. However, does anyone know if a 3.1% diameter increase might be too large and potentially cause issues like rubbing or affect the suspension?

For tires, I’m thinking of sticking with the Pirelli Scorpion AS Plus 3 that I currently have, as it seems to perform well overall. But I’m open to other suggestions if anyone has had success with something else.

Looking forward to any thoughts or feedback before I make the leap!

Thanks again!

Ford Mustang Mach-E Downgrading from 20" to 19" on GTPE for ride quality improvements 1726810329070-j2

Ford Mustang Mach-E Downgrading from 20" to 19" on GTPE for ride quality improvements 1726810688441-n9
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