Departure Time -> Charging -> No actual preparation

[VindictivePantz]

I think I am haunted by a software bug and curious if anyone else has seen similar behavior. (2021, Job 1)

TLDR; version: Departure times locally and via FordPass are not working, but they sometimes start but never finish, and the car charges or attempts to charge instead, and not sure which fuse might be best to clear out what I suspect is a faulty memory value condition somewhere in the system.

Per this thread, I was having annoying PaaK issues with a new phone and have them mostly sorted.

Description:
When setting departure times from the phone OR the car itself, they do not function. They functioned with the "old" phone and from the car before my phone switch, but either causally or coincidentally ceased functioning when I moved to a new phone (both Android.)

I thought it was just not working, but that would make it easier to understand what's going on. It sometimes acts like it's working, but it's not really.

Here is what I am able to consistently reproduce:

To reproduce:
1) Set a departure time from the phone OR car
2) Watch FordPass approximately 15-30 minutes before the targeted departure time (depending on ambient temperature)
3) FordPass will sometimes say "Preparing cabin for departure"; other times, it says nothing
4) After a few minutes, if it did say "Preparing cabin for departure", it stops saying it when it should very well be preparing, and will sometimes indicate that it's charging to its target charge even when I am outside my charge window
5) In either situation, I generally get a notification that the car has reached its target charge, despite the time of day (I charge to 80% in an 11PM to 6AM window; this all occurs outside that window)

Since I was relying solely on FordPass to tell me what's going on, I decided to watch the car's physical behavior a couple of days ago. It starts preparing the cabin (or sometimes I hear the battery warming) for a minute or two, but then it stops and starts a charge cycle and stops when it hits its target (sometimes.)

As the car is usually near 80%, the charge cycle is pretty short. In the cases where it's not close to 80%, I have had it try to get to its target, and in some cases, charge for a few minutes and stop.

I have had no issues with Target Charging.

From what I understand of the software architecture, departure times and status communication to/from FordPass go through Ford's servers and the car's TCU, but once a departure time is set, outside of notifications, everything should happen locally within the vehicle.

The fact that I can see the departure times in the car, and the fact that I've cleared them and set new ones from the car without having the phone involved and I still have an issue leads me to believe that it's not phone-related, but that there's some bug in the car itself.

Which fuse? I have performed multiple Sync and phone reboots, but I have NOT pulled a fuse yet (as I am not sure which ones make the most sense for this.) Since I suspect it's an in-car software bug, perhaps a fuse pull will clear some latent memory value condition in one of the modules?

The oddest thing about this is the attempted or actual charging that takes place after it decides to abort departure preparation.


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[jtmyrand]

I experience the same behavior but my root cause is not related to the vehicle. I am on a program with my local utility (DTE) to get a lower rate if I do not charge during a peak time 3-7 PM. If I set a departure time during the peak time I experience the same behavior as you have described. If I set a departure time outside of the peak time I do not have an issue.

 

[DoubleDribble]

This happens to me often. Ford didn't hire talented programmers for this app. Whatever. Someone got paid a lot of money to write this app and they absolutely should be fired.

 

[bdeweese]

I experience the same behavior but my root cause is not related to the vehicle. I am on a program with my local utility (DTE) to get a lower rate if I do not charge during a peak time 3-7 PM. If I set a departure time during the peak time I experience the same behavior as you have described. If I set a departure time outside of the peak time I do not have an issue.

This seems to be happening to me. For example, In cooperation with local utility, I am plugged in but not charging between 7 and 11 am. I set a departure for 8:30 am. Car does not preheat - even though I have off plug checked. What’s up with this?!?!

 

[VindictivePantz]

I had signed up for a similar program in IL, but they indicated I was not able to participate in the pilot as they already had enough participants.

I logged into that program, and my vehicle is in there, and it looks like there is communication between the program and Ford/my vehicle, so I am wondering if I am actually enrolled and experiencing the same thing @bdeweese and @jtmyrand are experiencing.

When I logged in, I found an option to disable a schedule, and I'll see if that does anything. It had a value I had not set but am wondering if they (the program) are preventing power that's NOT a charge from happening outside of the schedule they (the program) had set.

I'll test/observe.

 

[bdeweese]

I had signed up for a similar program in IL, but they indicated I was not able to participate in the pilot as they already had enough participants.

I logged into that program, and my vehicle is in there, and it looks like there is communication between the program and Ford/my vehicle, so I am wondering if I am actually enrolled and experiencing the same thing @bdeweese and @jtmyrand are experiencing.

When I logged in, I found an option to disable a schedule, and I'll see if that does anything. It had a value I had not set but am wondering if they (the program) are preventing power that's NOT a charge from happening outside of the schedule they (the program) had set.

I'll test/observe.

Yea - I’ll do the same. I can opt out of the “no-charge” window and see if makes a difference. The thing is, with off plug checked - external power shouldn’t matter. We’re just instructing the car to draw power from the HVB to do the pre-heating, right?

 

[VindictivePantz]

Yea - I’ll do the same. I can opt out of the “no-charge” window and see if makes a difference. The thing is, with off plug checked - external power shouldn’t matter. We’re just instructing the car to draw power from the HVB to do the pre-heating, right?

What I suspect is that if your program looks like mine, that it allows for charge events as identified by the vehicle, not a precondition or cabin prep event. That assumes that Ford's software distinguishes between a straight charge event and what happens during a departure time event.

We know the car will behave differently during departure time (it will not charge, but precondition if needed and then prep the cabin,) so perhaps on the L2 charger being engaged, the car is indicating what's happening and the power company's program steps in and says it's NOT a charging event based on your schedule.?

I really don't have a clue but speculating.

 

[bdeweese]

What I suspect is that if your program looks like mine, that it allows for charge events as identified by the vehicle, not a precondition or cabin prep event. That assumes that Ford's software distinguishes between a straight charge event and what happens during a departure time event.

We know the car will behave differently during departure time (it will not charge, but precondition if needed and then prep the cabin,) so perhaps on the L2 charger being engaged, the car is indicating what's happening and the power company's program steps in and says it's NOT a charging event based on your schedule.?

I really don't have a clue but speculating.

Kind of begs the question then of what exactly is the “off-plug” setting for? I interpret that as I could have the car unplugged and it would still pre-heat? I wonder if the Ford software sees that the car is indeed plugged in - and even though it’s not charging, disregards the “off-plug” setting? If so, I would argue that the off-plug logic should be revised to treat either not plugged in or plugged in but not charging the same.

 

[VindictivePantz]

Kind of begs the question then of what exactly is the “off-plug” setting for? I interpret that as I could have the car unplugged and it would still pre-heat? I wonder if the Ford software sees that the car is indeed plugged in - and even though it’s not charging, disregards the “off-plug” setting? If so, I would argue that the off-plug logic should be revised to treat either not plugged in or plugged in but not charging the same.

Yes, with that setting enabled, it will not pre-condition but prepare the cabin if it's unplugged AND a departure time is set.

If it sees it plugged in, I believe it disregards that setting and not only prepares the cabin, but when conditions require it (and timing allows,) it will warm (or cool) the battery since it's able to do so using L2 power.

To your point about the logic, then you get into the "preconditioning" topic that has been on this forum since near day 1. No plug = no preconditioning, and no ability to precondition off-plug (without navigating via FordNav to a L3 charger.)

 

[bdeweese]

Yea - learning this as I go. I’m not worried about battery pre-conditioning. Short trip running to morning appointments, so really just trying to warm the cabin prior to departure. Don’t need the range so not concerned about burning some HVB juice to accomplish that.

Seems I either need to opt out of the utility’s program for that time, unplug the car, or perhaps just initiate a remote start prior to departure. Will play around with it. Thx for shedding some light on this!

 

[VindictivePantz]

Yea - learning this as I go. I’m not worried about battery pre-conditioning. Short trip running to morning appointments, so really just trying to warm the cabin prior to departure. Don’t need the range so not concerned about burning some HVB juice to accomplish that.

Seems I either need to opt out of the utility’s program for that time, unplug the car, or perhaps just initiate a remote start prior to departure. Will play around with it. Thx for shedding some light on this!

Sure thing. Since my departure times have been "broken", I am doing exactly what you plan on doing - remote starting before departure. Luckily, it's been getting warmer here so the preconditioning has not been required, or I've been in situations where I can take the range hit. However, next winter, I hope to get this all figured out.

Appreciate your insights/input! Thank you!

 

[Mach-Lee]

Does your EVSE allow full-rate charging when you’re trying to do the departure time? It needs to be able to draw 6 kW for best results. You can change your schedule and raise your charge limit to force charging without a departure time (but at the usual time) and monitor the rate in FordPass. The amperage limit should also not be changing during the departure time or it becomes too much of a moving target.

 

[VindictivePantz]

Does your EVSE allow full-rate charging when you’re trying to do the departure time? It needs to be able to draw 6 kW for best results. You can change your schedule and raise your charge limit to force charging without a departure time (but at the usual time) and monitor the rate in FordPass. The amperage limit should also not be changing during the departure time or it becomes too much of a moving target.

Thank you!

I have a good ol' "not smart" GRIZZL-E, that's humming along at 6kW (charging duration + FordPass tracks with a 6 kW output.)

Since I have a "not smart" charger in the loop, it leads me to believe that there may be something to the program(s) that the power companies might be running if one is a participant (as noted, in my case, I was told I was not part of the pilot for my utility, but that does not seem to be the case since I see regular communication from their web app and my vehicle status.)

 

[bdeweese]

Does your EVSE allow full-rate charging when you’re trying to do the departure time? It needs to be able to draw 6 kW for best results. You can change your schedule and raise your charge limit to force charging without a departure time (but at the usual time) and monitor the rate in FordPass. The amperage limit should also not be changing during the departure time or it becomes too much of a moving target.

I am running the FCSP at 48 amp which shows 10kw plus, so that shouldn’t be the issue. However, as I mentioned previously, I am plugged in and charged (90%) at the time set for departure - but power to the EVSE may be prohibited by my utility/Optiwatt. I thought checking the “off-plug” box would negate that issue - but apparently not.

 

[VindictivePantz]

I am running the FCSP at 48 amp which shows 10kw plus, so that shouldn’t be the issue. However, as I mentioned previously, I am plugged in and charged (90%) at the time set for departure - but power to the EVSE may be prohibited by my utility/Optiwatt. I thought checking the “off-plug” box would negate that issue - but apparently not.

Optiwatt is the same 'program' on my end as well. Just another data point

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