EV Charger Installation Anxiety

[carguy55]

The dryer circuit isn't a problem as I have a gas dryer. It is definitely a 60-amp main box, but the main breaker isn’t at the top of the box; it’s below breakers for the range (used) and dryer (unused).The box is actually dated 1977 with the last inspection sticker showing 1990. The potentially good news is that a friend of a friend is a licensed electrician and has done a good number of EV charger installs in older homes. I sent him some photos of the box and the back of the house where the main DTE service connects as well as the area where I want the charger. He returned a " " as he was on his way to the airport to pick up his wife. Hopefully I'll see and or hear from him Monday...

Enjoy,
CarGuy55

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[oljun]

I wrestled with this issue myself but I found a YouTube video that helped me determine my power usage. The process worked something like this: I downloaded my power usage reports from the local utility. These reports were available for each month, breaking down the KWH usage per hour, per day. I was able to download reports for all 12 months. As the reports were in .CSV format, I imported them into an Excell spreadsheet and reviewed the each hour per day to determine the maximum KWH usage (it's not as onerous as it sounds). I found that our maximum usage was 7.11 KWH or 29.625 amps for that hour ((7.11/240)*1000 = 29.625). The typical draw was closer to 2-3 kwh.

My house is just under 2400 sq foot, and the usage included central AC, electric oven, electric dryer, central vacuum, etc. The house has 100amp service. As I calculated that the draw was about 30 amps, that I had enough free capacity to add a 40 amp breaker (which with the 80% rule would use 32 amps or 7.7 KWH. I provided this info to an electrician that provides EV install services for GM & he installed the wiring, outlet & box. I also had an electrical inspection performed & passed with no problems.

I use the Ford Mobile charger which provides 7.1-7.2 KWH. With a 72 KWH, that allows me about 10% charge per hour and more than enough to provide for my typical daily driving needs.

I hope this info helps and I encourage you to do your own research to determine your needs, but 100amp service has worked flawlessly for me so far.

 

[Shayne]

I hope I'm not duplicating another thread, but I have a question that may stop me from leasing a 2025 MME next week due to "charger installation anxiety". I have an almost fully populated 100-amp box that likely dates back to 1990. I'm hoping that an unused 30-amp dryer circuit can be used (perhaps with upgraded wiring) to power an EV charger throttled to a 24-amp output. Has anyone had a situation like this handled successfully under the Ford Power Promise/QMerit program? I don't really want to invest in a major rewiring of my house, but I need to be able to do some L2 charging at home as the EV charging infrastructure near me is lacking. Has anyone been able to get the Ford-provided Charge Station Pro installed by a QMerit contractor limited to provide 24-amp charging on an existing unused 30-amp circuit breaker?

Thanks,
CarGuy55

I have a old farm (rebuilt 1972) with a 100 amp service. I added a 1000 sq foot addition late 90's and my box was so full then they ran a pony panel to do the addition and I have been stealing off that. I tried to get them to install a 200 amp when they where putting in the 40 amp L2 for the EV but the hydro supplier wanted to install 2 new poles across the street and then go down to the next farm and install guy wires on his pole. The only one that did not get replaced was the one on my side coming in to the new poles that I installed. Of course I would need to pay for that EV or not. Pandemic hit and that fell apart. But they did install a 50 amp breaker and an exterior wall mount ev plug in.

I would take a free space and a new run (run a pony panel first) and then wire a new 50 amp ev plug in. Pretty cheap.

Long story long I have a 100 amp with a 60 amp pony panel then a 50 amp breaker and have charged at 40 amp (bare Ford melting port software) for years. You have a schedule in the car and you set that up. My schedule starts after I go to bed when not much power is being used and is done "should be" when I get up. Never been a problem and I would just install a 50 amp breaker and wire gauge for a 40 amp charger.

 

[johnnycombo]

Pictures are worth a thousand guesses!
Five suggestions no matter what amperage you decide on (my preference would be a new 40amp breaker, charging at 32amps). Keep in mind this is a continuos duty circuit .

1. A new breaker at what ever amps you decide on. (Breaker amps multiplied by .8 equals charging amps)
2. Absolutely No junction boxes, Copper wire only and a direct wiring from breaker to receptical. In conduit preferred.
3. A 14-50r receptical rated for electric vehicle use and weather rated if used outdoors (With cover plate, because they are larger than normal). Buy this yourself so you know what you are getting!
4. Make sure that all of the connections are torqued to the proper specification.
5. Plan on at least an inspection every two years, sooner if you use the charger more often.

I also use Noalox on all my connections and Deoxit on the plug and receptical.

Here is a great channel to explore about electric vehicle charging: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdX0BJNon1c6GfOdeS3pyDw?app=desktop

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

Pictures are worth a thousand guesses!
Five suggestions no matter what amperage you decide on (my preference would be a new 40amp breaker, charging at 32amps). Keep in mind this is a continuos duty circuit .

1. A new breaker at what ever amps you decide on. (Breaker amps multiplied by .8 equals charging amps)
2. Absolutely No junction boxes, Copper wire only and a direct wiring from breaker to receptical. In conduit preferred.
3. A 14-50r receptical rated for electric vehicle use and weather rated if used outdoors (With cover plate, because they are larger than normal). Buy this yourself so you know what you are getting!
4. Make sure that all of the connections are torqued to the proper specification.
5. Plan on at least an inspection every two years, sooner if you use the charger more often.

I also use Noalox on all my connections and Deoxit on the plug and receptical.

Here is a great channel to explore about electric vehicle charging: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdX0BJNon1c6GfOdeS3pyDw?app=desktop

^^^This.......As someone who had a cheap "Big Box Store" receptical melt......and thank goodness it was limited to the receptical......make sure you have high quality EV rated materials and a license contractor.

 

[carguy55]

Thanks to all for the insightful replies to my charger install questions, but I've decided against going EV for now. I'm still a fan of the MME, but it's going to be a while longer before I get a new vehicle...

Thanks again,
CarGuy55

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Old fashioned load calculations don’t account for intelligent electronics. Some chargers have add-ons that monitor your house load and adjust the EV charger down if needed. Wallbox is one. I have 125 service. We have been fine. We ran a new wire to the garage though, and have an outlet the charger plugs into so we are limited to 40amp charging on an 50 amp circuit. That has been fine for both our Mach-E and Lightning. With extreme rare exception, we would be fine charging at 24amp.

Actually we were fine before we installed the load monitor. Rarely would we be using the AC, Dryer, Oven, and EV charger at the same time. If there is a likely time of year for that to happen, I would schedule charging to start after we go to sleep, when the oven and probably the dryer weren’t being used.

 

[YeOldeTraveller]

I got my MME in July last year.

I basically ran it on a 15 A 120 V plug using the Mobile charger for most of that time. This, together with charging at work (50 mile commute), covered my needs.

I eventually got an adapter for the welder plug NEMA 10-50 a previous owner installed to the 14-50 the Mobile charger will connect to. As many here have noted, the Mobile charger is not reliable in regular service. I found this was the case only for 240 V. I have not had any issues at 120 V. I only tried the 240 V as I wanted to get battery conditioning for planned departure during the winter.

I got an old JuiceBox 40 (v2) from my boss who had more chargers than EVs. Last month, I replaced the controller board in the JuiceBox with one from OpenEVSE. This gives me local control, and smart home integration. Through the WiFi interface on the OpenEVSE board, I set the max rate to 24 A. This has been plenty, and I can bump that rate if I need a faster charge. The other main feature I use with this installation is the pausing of charge during the Peak time in the DTE TOU rate plan. This can also be overridden through the Web interface on the charger.

To the OP, it sounds like you might have a Pushmatic Breaker system with a split bus. (I have this arrange in my current house.) The middle breaker powers everything under it, but the breakers above that are also "main" breakers in that they are directly connected to the main service. (I don't think the split bus is allowed for new installation.) My point is that the actual service could be more than 60 or 100 A, and that dryer circuit might not be connected through the 60 A breaker to the incoming service. (I have breakers for a dryer and a stove above my middle main breaker, and in my case, they have been proven to be independently connected to the main service.)

 

[carguy55]

That sounds exactly like situation in my service box! I've put off new car shopping for a few months due to health concerns, but when I'm back in the market an MME will (hopefully) still be on my short list and I'll still have the same electrical service...

Thanks,
CarGuy55

 

[YeOldeTraveller]

That sounds exactly like situation in my service box! I've put off new car shopping for a few months due to health concerns, but when I'm back in the market an MME will (hopefully) still be on my short list and I'll still have the same electrical service...

Thanks,
CarGuy55

I wish you good fortune on both accounts.

 

[TikmTyler]

As a fellow DTE customer, do look into the Experimental Vehicle Service D1.9 they offer when you are back in the EV market.
I have it and it does require a second meter be installed but offers the lowest rates for overnight charging.
Never mind just found that its closed - Fully subscribed - new program enrollment is now closed
https://www.dteenergy.com/content/d...icing-options/ResidentialElectricRateCard.pdf
Maybe it will be available again in the future.

My bother is replacing his pushmatic for the more practical reason of its a PIA to deal with.
I replaced my Fuse box with a modern breaker service panel when getting the Chargepoint EVSE installed not cause fuses cant do EVs but cause I don't want to be replacing fuses $$$ if I happen to be vacuuming while my daughter uses her hair dryer.

Good luck to you.

 

[carguy55]

Many thanks to everyone!! Hopefully I'll be back in the market by this fall or so...

Enjoy,
CarGuy55

 

[kbaybob]

I am retired, so I don't have an intense daily commute. However, I do need more capability than an L1 charger can provide for my usual forays (especially during the Michigan winters). I believe a 24-amp charger would do the job for me, but I also want to be able to get at least some benefit from the Ford Power Promise. I'm just hoping someone on this forum has travelled this road with the "Promise" before...

Enjoy,
CarGuy55

We installed a 14-50 outlet in the garage and use the car's extension cord exclusively for charging from that outlet. It easily charges from 20% to 90 or 100% overnight. I suspect your 30A circuit will do the same with an outlet that matches the extension cord plug.

 

[SalsabyJake]

Here is a rough idea of the mileage added versus the charge current available... I think it's a little optimistic (I thought 32A gives 21 miles/hour of charging). Also, the rate is NOT constant. It slows down as the battery approaches 90-100%, so it's not a linear calculation! The Ford Mobile Charger that used to be supplied with the car was limited to 32A and it was adequate for me charging overnight. But your lifestyle may be different. I have a Grizz-le now that is set at 40A for my 50A circuit. You would be limited to 24A on a 30A circuit.

 

[carguy55]

Jake,

I appreciate the info on the chart and will keep it in mind if I eventually get a Mach E! I think I will do well with 32amp capability as I am retired and my wife will still have an ICE or hybrid vehicle for longer road trips.

Enjoy,
CarGuy55

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