Dealer Excuse: Mache updates break things

[bp99]

IMO, this problem only happens because Ford is incompetent of providing tools and procedures that have the proper safeguards against issues during module updates and from a legacy mindset, specially in Dealerships, that don’t known how to deal with computer on wheels like EVs are now a days.

In legacy cars there might be only a few modules and I concur that it would be the best to have this mindset of: if ain’t it broken, don’t mess with it.

This can’t do it anymore and both Ford and Dearleships need to wake up for the new reality.

The problem is Ford took shortcuts when designing the MME to save money (and time to market). They chose to use legacy components wherever they could. The MME is not a 'computer on wheels'. It's mostly still just like every legacy car Ford builds, but with a huge battery and electric motors. It's built from numerous components from numerous vendors all with their own firmware. OTA updates were duct-tapped on top of it all.

Until they come out with a next generation BEV that was actually designed for continuous updates, this will be a problem that will be clunky and error prone. I can't blame dealers for not wanting to deal with this unless they absolutely have to.

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[ZombieJester]

So my car just got picked up for some work and I provided a list of updates via FDRS that I am looking to get done. I have been trying for two years to get these modules updated at 3 different dealers.

“Ford doesn’t pay us to do these so you will likely have to pay out of pocket. Your car is a giant computer and it takes a lot of time”

I ask you @Ford Motor Company and I will be emailing my contacts at the BEV team as well. These are module updates for things like powertrain etc. Why aren’t you empowering your dealers to provide this service when you know fully well that updating these things is for the better health of the vehicle? Especially those of us who can’t afford or don’t have the technical ability to do it ourselves via FDRS.

probably speaking to the void here but JFC that’s frustrating.

 

[dtbaker61]

As I have been pushing the dealer to complete an ever growing number of updates available for my car, they always say “we only fix symptoms because updates can break things”

Has anyone experienced or does anyone recall anyone else reporting that properly done SW updates based on VIN number created an issue?

unfortunately, updates cannot be 'batched' to catch you up as far as I know. They would much rather have you turn on auto-update, and let you handle it on your own. If you are way behind, it could take a month, or two for your car to 'catch up'.

there have been numerous instances of 'side effects' from various incremental OTAs introducing bugs, losing settings, or in some cases (like the L1 charging energy all going to battery warming) resulting in undesirable changes until a patch OTA is released.

so.... it depends on whether you want the 'latest' and willing to risk 'side effects', or are ok with whatever functionality you are running on, and turn off auto-update. (I went this route months ago, disabled auto-update, and am happy with functionality of 4.3.4 PowerUp)

 

[Snakebitten]

I don't normally find myself desiring to defend the Factory Authorized Service industry. But when I consider how many hours I have spent in the last 3 years, sitting in my Powerboost trucks with a laptop, I can't imagine the dealership being willing to do that for me as a favor.

The efforts are well worth my time and the inve$tment for the necessary tools. I have zero regrets. Amazing vehicles.

But I just can't imagine a viable solution other than self service. The Continuous updates model is in its infancy. Especially for so called legacy automotive manufacturers. It'll get better in the future, I suspect, but that requires consumer patience. Not something modern culture cultivates. ??

 

[dtbaker61]

So my car just got picked up for some work and I provided a list of updates via FDRS that I am looking to get done. I have been trying for two years to get these modules updated at 3 different dealers.

“Ford doesn’t pay us to do these so you will likely have to pay out of pocket. Your car is a giant computer and it takes a lot of time”

I ask you @Ford Motor Company and I will be emailing my contacts at the BEV team as well. These are module updates for things like powertrain etc. Why aren’t you empowering your dealers to provide this service when you know fully well that updating these things is for the better health of the vehicle? Especially those of us who can’t afford or don’t have the technical ability to do it ourselves via FDRS.

probably speaking to the void here but JFC that’s frustrating.

@Ford Motor Company expects you to enable 'auto-updates' delivered via OTA in scheduled timeslots while you car is parked somewhere with wi-fi, and not need Dealer or DIY FDRS updates.

 

[ZombieJester]

@Ford Motor Company expects you to enable 'auto-updates' delivered via OTA in scheduled timeslots while you car is parked somewhere with wi-fi, and not need Dealer or DIY FDRS updates.

I get that as a tech savvy guy and an EAP member. What I don’t understand I guess is the purpose of these modules then? They don’t seem to be updated via OTA. The list for my MME needing updated is the same list from when I got the car 2 years ago. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[dtbaker61]

I get that as a tech savvy guy and an EAP member. What I don’t understand I guess is the purpose of these modules then? They don’t seem to be updated via OTA. The list for my MME needing updated is the same list from when I got the car 2 years ago. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

each 'module' is a semi-independent sofware library designed to control specific equipment and features. SOMETIMES one module update requires other modules to have updates for compatibility. The same modules may get several version updates, but then nothing for a while while other modules get updated..... this is what makes it (currently) impossible for Ford to do a batch 'service pak' update to some known stable build of Powerup x.x.x .... If they move to better 'release management' I would hope that 'major release updates' could be made available that would OTA all modules to known compatible versions in one swoop.

 

[ZombieJester]

each 'module' is a semi-independent sofware library designed to control specific equipment and features. SOMETIMES one module update requires other modules to have updates for compatibility. The same modules may get several version updates, but then nothing for a while while other modules get updated..... this is what makes it (currently) impossible for Ford to do a batch 'service pak' update to some known stable build of Powerup x.x.x .... If they move to better 'release management' I would hope that 'major release updates' could be made available that would OTA all modules to known compatible versions in one swoop.

I’m not sure this is an acceptable answer but it seems like it’s becoming “stop obsessing about these modules being updated, Ford will hopefully get to them when they can”.

thanks for your insight.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I get that as a tech savvy guy and an EAP member. What I don’t understand I guess is the purpose of these modules then? They don’t seem to be updated via OTA. The list for my MME needing updated is the same list from when I got the car 2 years ago. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

They sent out most, but not all of them as OTA updates. Unfortunately a lot of vehicles don’t get every update they should deployed.

2021s and 2022s definitely need a “Catch Up” service that applies all updates. Vehicle should be in mostly good shape for future OTAs after that point.

 

[Beewize2]

I've done system/software development for a while now. Unfortunately, this isn't a Ford issue, it's a technology issue. No amount of pre deployment testing is going to catch every bug for every situation. It happens with your phone, operating systems, apps, etc. I hate it too .

 

[ZombieJester]

They sent out most, but not all of them as OTA updates. Unfortunately a lot of vehicles don’t get every update they should deployed.

2021s and 2022s definitely need a “Catch Up” service that applies all updates. Vehicle should be in mostly good shape for future OTAs after that point.

this the official reply I got back about the modules.

The EV tech won’t touch the modules needing updating as “they are all set to factory settings and updating them could mess them and the car up”

3 dealers now who won’t touch them. I’ve given up on the battle lol.

 

[Mach-Lee]

this the official reply I got back about the modules.

The EV tech won’t touch the modules needing updating as “they are all set to factory settings and updating them could mess them and the car up”

3 dealers now who won’t touch them. I’ve given up on the battle lol.

Correct. Almost every dealer believes updates = trouble/bad/headache so they won't do them unless forced to by a bulletin or directive from Ford.

Perhaps you can find an owner with FDRS equipment who will do them for you.

 

[Just Lurking]

As I have been pushing the dealer to complete an ever growing number of updates available for my car, they always say “we only fix symptoms because updates can break things”

Has anyone experienced or does anyone recall anyone else reporting that properly done SW updates based on VIN number created an issue?

Right. But this thread is less about having the dealer do it and more about whether updates are legitimately risky. It sounds like risk is low.

The risk is low, but not zero. As others have pointed out, the real issue is the updates are very time-consuming and the service department won't get reimbursed for the time unless there's something under warranty that will be fixed by the update.

The real issue is Ford. They didn't design the car to be easily updated and they're struggling with over the air updates. If Ford had a better update system it would just be a non-issue. New cars would go home from the dealership fully updated and everyone's car would stay updated plus or minus a few weeks or a couple of months at most.

Alas, that is not the situation we're in. It could be worse though- my partner likes Audis and the Q4/Q8 e-Trons have never received even a single OTA. The state of OTA updates with legacy automakers is abysmal. Ford, despite its well-documented issues, appears to be doing better than everyone not named Tesla (possibly Rivian too, but they are a rounding error right now).

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