Dealers getting in the way

[shutterbug]

• I'll check out their websites first.
  • If they're advertising cars with 10-40% ADM, examples of which we've seen posted here, then they're out. I don't just look at the vehicle I'm interested in buying, but many different vehicles.
  • If they claim an MSRP that doesn't match the window sticker, then they're out.
  • If they add sketchy junk like window etching or paint protection without asking first, then they're out.
  • If they make it difficult for me to find the window sticker or VIN, they're out.
  • If they have, "call for price" instead of a price, they're out. I know about MAP, but I've never had a dealer start with a price lower than MSRP unless the vehicle was a previous model year. There isn't an MME dealer out there who is hiding their price because it's lower than MAP.
  • If they're selling used vehicles way above KBB or other used options in the area, then they're out.
• Then I'll look for reviews of the dealer. I first look at the 2-,3-, and 4-star reviews to see why people think they're mediocre. Extremes (1 or 5 stars) tend to be more emotional. If there are consistent problems that I don't want to deal with, then I'll put that dealer lower on the list of potential visits. If those consistent problems also appear in the 1-star reviews, then they're likely out.
• Then I send an email to ask about a specifics (do they actually have any of the vehicles they're advertising? do they honor X-Plan? will they give me an OTD in writing for a cash sale? etc). I also ask if they have a vehicle on the lot. If I get avoidance, generic responses, or a request to come in to talk, then they're at the bottom of the list or off the list entirely.

After narrowing the list down to two or three dealers, I'll ask about scheduling a test drive or, if they're nearby, I'll go in for a test drive. Visiting the lot is at the bottom of my process, though, because if I need to visit more than one dealer for any particular brand, I have to drive at least several hours. The only time I'll go to the dealership early in the process is if I don't plan to purchase the vehicle they have on the lot but do want to test it.

Basically, most of the work I do before buying a car is protecting myself from unethical dealers. I've had too many dealers try to burn me over the years. I don't even trust the ones I've purchased from before; the turnover rate is so high.

Looking at website is generally pointless. It rarely reflects the actual inventory. Dealers don't proudly announce ADM. They know it's wrong and try to sneak it in. Call for price, means the price is negotiable, nothing more. No, they never start at below MSRP, but that doesn't mean they aren't flexible with it. Used car departments are completely separate from new car sales, and indicate NOTHING. The "customer reviews" are ALWAYS useless. When it comes to MME, nearly all of them are ordered on website, or from a dealer, or are abandoned orders. In these times there are no MMEs to be had brand new below MSRP. Many dealers who honor MSRP and X-Plan on orders will attempt to add ADM on abandoned orders. Many of those will fold fairly quickly on this. In my entire life, I've never paid a single penny in ADM. However, as long as there are rubes willing to pay ADM, dealers will attempt to charge it.

One other thing, never start out negotiations by telling the dealer that you are paying cash. Make them think that whatever concessions they make, can be made up on financing later.

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[kennethjk]

Looking at website is generally pointless. It rarely reflects the actual inventory. Dealers don't proudly announce ADM. They know it's wrong and try to sneak it in. Call for price, means the price is negotiable, nothing more. No, they never start at below MSRP, but that doesn't mean they aren't flexible with it. Used car departments are completely separate from new car sales, and indicate NOTHING. The "customer reviews" are ALWAYS useless. When it comes to MME, nearly all of them are ordered on website, or from a dealer, or are abandoned orders. In these times there are no MMEs to be had brand new below MSRP. Many dealers who honor MSRP and X-Plan on orders will attempt to add ADM on abandoned orders. Many of those will fold fairly quickly on this. In my entire life, I've never paid a single penny in ADM. However, as long as there are rubes willing to pay ADM, dealers will attempt to charge it.

One other thing, never start out negotiations by telling the dealer that you are paying cash. Make them think that whatever concessions they make, can be made up on financing later.

I have never paid an ADM but calling someone a rube who has, is wrong. If that’s the case anyone who has ever paid more than someone else even though below MSRP is a rube.

 

[shutterbug]

I have never paid an ADM but calling someone a rube who has, is wrong. If that’s the case anyone who has ever paid more than someone else even though below MSRP is a rube.

The reason ADM exists is not because dealers want to charge it. They always will, It's in their nature. The reason is because people pay it. If you don't like the word rube, change it to low information buyer.

 

[kennethjk]

The reason ADM exists is not because dealers want to charge it. They always will, It's in their nature. The reason is because people pay it. If you don't like the word rube, change it to low information buyer.

Every item is worth something different to a person and a reason why some are willing to pay a higher price than someone else, even if under suggested retail. Happens in cars and every consumer item of some sort.

I wouldn’t even call it low information buyer although you are right for some buyers but does someone care enough or want something bad enough.

I buy golf clubs after the first year because they are way cheaper than first year clubs. Doesn’t make the guy who pays full retail a low information buyer, it’s just something they want badly enough.

real issue is that going to many dealers is not fun and people are just waiting to be cheated. Happened to me several times. once a dealer put an alarm system in the car even though I said no. I walked out without buying the car,

another time they said my lease would cost nothing to get out of and then said when I went to pick up new car, there was a balance of 2k. I walked out again.

both time they dropped their charges. Leaves a horrible taste in your mouth.

at least with an ADM, if up front, you know how they are getting you.

As an FYI, golf clubs are only work when you try them out. Once you own them they don’t work so well.

 

[shutterbug]

Every item is worth something different to a person and a reason why some are willing to pay a higher price than someone else, even if under suggested retail. Happens in cars and every consumer item of some sort.

I wouldn’t even call it low information buyer although you are right for some buyers but does someone care enough or want something bad enough.

I buy golf clubs after the first year because they are way cheaper than first year clubs. Doesn’t make the guy who pays full retail a low information buyer, it’s just something they want badly enough.

real issue is that going to many dealers is not fun and people are just waiting to be cheated. Happened to me several times. once a dealer put an alarm system in the car even though I said no. I walked out without buying the car,

another time they said my lease would cost nothing to get out of and then said when I went to pick up new car, there was a balance of 2k. I walked out again.

both time they dropped their charges. Leaves a horrible taste in your mouth.

at least with an ADM, if up front, you know how they are getting you.

As an FYI, golf clubs are only work when you try them out. Once you own them they don’t work so well.

I wasn't talking about paying full retail price. I get it that some people don't want to spend time negotiating. It's the people who pay over and above retail price. Especially for a thing that's not all that rare.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Looking at website is generally pointless. It rarely reflects the actual inventory.

I disagree. I don't look for inventory. I look for behaviors. I look for ADM. I look for whether prices are available and public. I look for difficulty in finding the VIN or the window sticker. None of these are because I'm researching the specific vehicle. I'm researching the dealer's practices. If they don't want to be open about their details, they don't want my business.

Dealers don't proudly announce ADM. They know it's wrong and try to sneak it in. Call for price, means the price is negotiable, nothing more. No, they never start at below MSRP, but that doesn't mean they aren't flexible with it.

Many dealers include ADM on their websites. They're a step above dealers who don't include the price at all. I understand that "call for price" means it's negotiable, but I also believe it's a hook to try to snare uninformed buyers. I can't count the times I've called about the price and was asked, "well, do you have a trade-in and, what do you want your monthly payment to be?" Anyone can get any monthly payment they want if they're willing to put up with ridiculous loan terms. I'm not going to support a dealer who does that sort of thing, even if it won't impact my personal purchase experience.

Used car departments are completely separate from new car sales, and indicate NOTHING.

If they have the same owner, they're connected and the business practices of one are related to the business practices of the other. If the owner allows shady used car deals, then I cannot trust them to disallow shady new car deals. Again, it's not about the vehicles or the prices. It's about the dealer and their behaviors.

In my entire life, I've never paid a single penny in ADM. However, as long as there are rubes willing to pay ADM, dealers will attempt to charge it.

Neither have I, but it's not because the dealer hasn't tried to add it to the vehicle. I've walked out of more negotiations than I've stayed in. Including ADM or extra crap is a waste of my time and the research I've mentioned before has saved me a lot of time, energy, money, and enjoyment in my new vehicles because by doing this research up front, I find dealers who won't add that garbage to the vehicle.

One other thing, never start out negotiations by telling the dealer that you are paying cash. Make them think that whatever concessions they make, can be made up on financing later.

I've never lost a negotiation because I've mentioned I might buy the vehicle for cash. I've rejected dealers who suddenly behave differently when I tell them I'm considering cash as one option. If they don't want the sale, that's fine. I've been lucky enough to never have wanted or needed a vehicle badly enough to have to put up with jerks.

For most of the dozen or so vehicles I've purchased, I have driven away with a new vehicle that I could turn around and immediately sell for more on the used market. I've only twice regretted a purchase. The first time was my first vehicle. I was 17 and the dealer turned out to have a terrible service department and would not fix a warranty issue. Since I could fix it myself, I did, but I never purchased from them again (they eventually went out of business because of their shady behaviors). In the second case, at the last minute the salesman decided to be a jerk because I wouldn't let them change the APR we'd agreed to weeks earlier when I ordered the vehicle. I walked out, but before I did, I told their manager the manager could deliver the vehicle to my house in order to complete the sale, but I wouldn't deal with the salesman nor the finance people. The manager got all the paperwork ready, with the right APR, and delivered to my house late evening on the last day of monthly sales accounting.

 

[shutterbug]

For most of the dozen or so vehicles I've purchased, I have driven away with a new vehicle that I could turn around and immediately sell for more on the used market.

So, with all of your mad skills, how many MMEs have you purchased that you then resold for more money?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

So, with all of your mad skills, how many MMEs have you purchased that you then resold for more money?

Obviously none. I understand this is an MME forum, but this thread was as much about the dealer model in general as MMEs.

 

[Mach1E]

The reason ADM exists is not because dealers want to charge it. They always will, It's in their nature. The reason is because people pay it. If you don't like the word rube, change it to low information buyer.

The only things ADM payers have in common are this:

Plenty of money
And
Lack of patience

Paying ADM is a choice for people who want to “skip the line.” Want to order a Mach E and pay MSRP? Wait 6 months.

Want one now? Pay ADM.

And yes, I know there are some lucky few that happen upon a cancelled order and pay msrp, but you gotta be lucky or patient.

 

[shutterbug]

Obviously none. I understand this is an MME forum, but this thread was as much about the dealer model in general as MMEs.

Obviously!

 

[Scrannel]

I submit that the Tesla model is the way to go. My M3P purchase was the most hassle free car buying experience of my life. Sent in phots of my low mileage Evoque. Buy-out value offered better than others. Car was ready in five days. AND when I took delivery they had adjusted my trade-in value UP. Updates OTA. Only service in 2.5 years, a flat tire. The Service Center isn't a circus but a place to get... service. Yes, they do have coffee. And I need a "dealer" for exactly what?

 

[kennethjk]

Went to the dealer that had a car with my specs and it was sold on Saturday and they said it was sold at 4K more than sticker

I went just out of curiosity not planning to actually buy it but to see if they had it

It was a car ordered for someone who backed out

the dealer said they add the 4K on all extended battery 4 wheel drive cars. GM was Nice guy, just being honest.

always someone for some car at almost any price

BTW the dealer said that extended batteries are being used for GT to get them out the door and other versions with EB are being delayed

 

[Mach1E]

I submit that the Tesla model is the way to go. My M3P purchase was the most hassle free car buying experience of my life. Sent in phots of my low mileage Evoque. Buy-out value offered better than others. Car was ready in five days. AND when I took delivery they had adjusted my trade-in value UP. Updates OTA. Only service in 2.5 years, a flat tire. The Service Center isn't a circus but a place to get... service. Yes, they do have coffee. And I need a "dealer" for exactly what?

Sounds like that’s because the “Tesla model” isn’t really that different. They’re just copying what car dealers have done for decades. Only difference is who owns the dealer?

I don’t thing this is a model issue, sounds more like a customer service issue.

My experience has been better with big city high volume dealers than with the small town ones.

The smaller the dealer, the more I get the 1980s “used car salesman” experience.

The bigger, the easier/better. Price is marked low and as advertised online. No issues scheduling test drive, no hard sell on add ons. Fair offer for trade, done deal.

The model isn’t broken, they just need to fix the culture of the customer service.

 

[kennethjk]

I submit that the Tesla model is the way to go. My M3P purchase was the most hassle free car buying experience of my life. Sent in phots of my low mileage Evoque. Buy-out value offered better than others. Car was ready in five days. AND when I took delivery they had adjusted my trade-in value UP. Updates OTA. Only service in 2.5 years, a flat tire. The Service Center isn't a circus but a place to get... service. Yes, they do have coffee. And I need a "dealer" for exactly what?

I checked with Tesla on my trade in, thousands less than Ford dealer. They also have 5 month wait now.
but overall a different experience than most dealerships

 

[AlbanyIan]

When it comes to MME, nearly all of them are ordered on website, or from a dealer, or are abandoned orders. In these times there are no MMEs to be had brand new below MSRP. Many dealers who honor MSRP and X-Plan on orders will attempt to add ADM on abandoned orders. Many of those will fold fairly quickly on this. In my entire life, I've never paid a single penny in ADM. However, as long as there are rubes willing to pay ADM, dealers will attempt to charge it.

There are lots of reasons people buy a particular car at a particular time. One of my reasons was to maximize the trade on my Highlander and waiting until a newly-ordered GT gets built and delivered means another 6 mos of mileage and potential CARFAX hits. So, I paid some ADM on an orphaned GT. If that makes me Rube, I’m a very happy Rube now driving a really nice BEV. !

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