EV property tax

[nvabill]

Properly maintained roads benefits everyone in the country even if they don’t use the roads themselves and therefore don’t pay fuel taxes, even indirectly. It sounds “fair” to say that road users should pay the tax but really at the same time it benefits others who by personal choice or health issues do not drive and pay the tax.

You are indeed correct but everyone who benifits from the roadways does so because vehicles being used on those roads in theory all have to pay road use tax to maintain those roads. So, with that said pay your fair share, write the check and move on.

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[rad1234]

Don't forget the Mach-E is so heavy and destroys every road it touches, I checked and it's ~600lbs heavier than a regular Mustang. That basically the BS my PA state senator gave me "EVs are so much heavier" he must think it's like 2 tons heavier. I hate talking to politicians!

My Mach E is listed as 170 pounds heavier than the 2010 Ford Taurus it replaced. Once you fill the gas tank in the Taurus they are just about equal.

 

[garyd9]

My Mach E is listed as 170 pounds heavier than the 2010 Ford Taurus it replaced. Once you fill the gas tank in the Taurus they are just about equal.

Did you know that a charged battery actually weighs more than a discharged one? I'd guess that the official curb weights Ford publishes are with "empty tanks."

 

[dbsb3233]

My Mach E is listed as 170 pounds heavier than the 2010 Ford Taurus it replaced. Once you fill the gas tank in the Taurus they are just about equal.

Because the Taurus is a bigger vehicle.

The Mach-E is closer in size to an Escape. Which is half a ton lighter than the Mach-E.

 

[rad1234]

Because the Taurus is a bigger vehicle.

The Mach-E is closer in size to an Escape. Which is half a ton lighter than the Mach-E.

Yes, I know. Just stating that it is similar weight to the vehicle it replaced. The Mach E fits in the garage easier.

 

[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
When asked how they came up with that figure, one politician on the committee said that the average car paid $70 per year. We all know that EV's drive many more miles, so we doubled it to $140, then rounded it up to $200.

Yep, we “know” that EVs drive more miles than ICE. That’s why my ‘72 Blazer had a faded Chevrolet Million Mile sticker in a window when I bought it. That’s why even though I hardly have driven it recently I’ve put >300K on it while still driving other cars. That’s why my 2-3/4 year old MME has 19.3K miles on it. Uh-huh. Politicians is smart peoples. ??

 

[dbsb3233]

When asked how they came up with that figure, one politician on the committee said that the average car paid $70 per year.

I don't know how they came up with that low number. GA gas tax is 31c/gal. A typical vehicle in the US drives 14k miles/yr and averages around 25 MPG. That works out to 560 gallons/yr avg. 31c * 560 = $173.

And that doesn't even count the federal gas tax, that's collected by the feds but just ends up being allocated back to state road projects anyway.

 

[rad1234]

I don't know how they came up with that low number. GA gas tax is 31c/gal. A typical vehicle in the US drives 14k miles/yr and averages around 25 MPG. That works out to 560 gallons/yr avg. 31c * 560 = $173.

And that doesn't even count the federal gas tax, that's collected by the feds but just ends up being allocated back to state road projects anyway.

This went into effect July, 2016. The state portion of the gas tax may have been lower then.

 

[dbsb3233]

This went into effect July, 2016. The state portion of the gas tax may have been lower then.

It was a little, but not much. 26c/gal in 2016.

 

[rreddy3]

EVs already get huge tax breaks as it is. Up to $7500 federal, and many states add more. There's also 30% tax credit for many charger installs, and subsidy$ for many public charging stations. Government incentives galore.

They also pay no federal gas tax counterpart. Which is another big break.

The state EV registration fees are usually calculated to mimic average state gas tax, which usually pays for roads. EVs use roads just as much as ICE (arguably it's harder usage since EVs are usually heavier).

I agree with you for the most part.

But, considering the AASHTO design standards applicable to roads and highways I’m confident that the impact on paving life from 4500-5000 pound EVs versus 3000-4000 pound ICE vehicles, not to mention 5000 pound plus ICE pickups and commercial vehicles, is non existent. Sure, there could be exceptions, poorly maintained “farm” or very rural roads not designed to AASHTO standards, but on the roads 99.9 % of us travel on 99.9% of the time, impact is negligible.

 

[rreddy3]

some of the states are offering a two tiered system of EV fees, a higher flat rate (which would benefit people who do a lot of miles) and a mileage based rate (which benefit people that don't drive so much). I'm in the don't drive so much group, so the $210 GA ev fee which translates to the tax on 800 gallons of gas is far more than I ever use in a year.

VA has the option for EVs re: highway use fee. Va uses 11,400 (I think is the exact figure) miles as the base average mileage of a VA driver. If you have an EV you can opt into a program based on your actual mileage x the per mile rate. When my registration is up in October I’m going to opt into the program. I figure it will save about $100 USD a year. Not huge, but it’s what I am going to do.

 

[rreddy3]

huh ?
are you serious?

where the dollars come from is absolutely relevant. The most 'fair' way to pay for the roads you use, would be based on the weight of your vehicle and the miles of road you 'used'. How can you disagree with that?

Sadly there is no free lunch. It costs loads of money to design, construct, and maintain road, highway and bridge infrastructure, all of which is critical on many levels. I don’t have any problem with funds being derived in whole or part from gas taxes, or it’s equivalent use tax for our EVs. There may be better funding mechanisms but figuring them out is beyond my pay grade?.

 

[rreddy3]

Don't forget the Mach-E is so heavy and destroys every road it touches, I checked and it's ~600lbs heavier than a regular Mustang. That basically the BS my PA state senator gave me "EVs are so much heavier" he must think it's like 2 tons heavier. I hate talking to politicians!

next time you talk to your PA state senator ask if he or she has ever heard of PennDOT and the AASHTO design standards which contemplate lane design loads far in excess of the weight of our little EVs. ?

 

[rreddy3]

Heh, even ICE coupes can be heavier. My ‘69 Copue de Villle (factory screw-up with a convertible frame) weighed 5300 pounds empty. Add gas and people and it’s… Massive. ??

Pebbles the ? wants to know if Grady knows how many ??s will fit in the Coupe de Ville ?.

 

[dbsb3233]

I agree with you for the most part.

But, considering the AASHTO design standards applicable to roads and highways I’m confident that the impact on paving life from 4500-5000 pound EVs versus 3000-4000 pound ICE vehicles, not to mention 5000 pound plus ICE pickups and commercial vehicles, is non existent. Sure, there could be exceptions, poorly maintained “farm” or very rural roads not designed to AASHTO standards, but on the roads 99.9 % of us travel on 99.9% of the time, impact is negligible.

Yep, I would agree that the weight difference for passenger cars is negligible. Especially in a state that has real winters (freeze/thaw cycles) which does way more to hasten road surface damage and the need to repave than an extra 1000 lbs on the vehicle does.

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