FORD FURTHER POSTPONES NA PRODUCTION RESTART TO PROTECT WORKFORCE - UNKNOWN RESTART DATE

[ChasingCoral]

First you asked for references. I gave you 6. That wasn't good enough. Then I didn't realize I had to read, digest and spit out 'executive summaries' for you. Absolutely unreal. Oh, and thanks for selectively excising one point out of 6 references, including Webmd, a lengthy study on the topic and others...right out of LYTMCQ's playbook. This is some special kind of denial. I'm sorry to see that you don't have the empathy to see how this could happen when people are desperate, without income and no idea if and when they'll ever have their jobs back. I'm actually sorry for you. I really am.

I see no point in continuing this discussion, it will get nowhere. No matter what or how many sources I provide, or where they come from, they won't be good enough.

Were the numbers any different in the others?
Guess not or you would have said so.

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[c max]

Yes, I agree with you about the science, BUT, my point and question is that many of the posters here ARE using their political party as the measuring stick.......I was wondering if the positions of certain people were reversed would their opinions also be reversed......... you know, the belief that "my guys can do no wrong".........

 

[Ken7]

Well, it's a good thing you're not my doctor. I would want my doctor to be listening to NIH guidance. That VA study was considered when the NIH issued its 21 April update to the "Coronavirus 2019 Treatment Guidelines" https://covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov
In it, the NIH expert panel stated (my underlining):

The VA study was a joke and about as unscientific a 'study' as you can get. If you have any background in science you'd immediately recognize how poorly conducted this study was, you don't have to be a doctor.

* It was almost exclusively administered to elderly patients. Already a flawed, biased sample. You will always expect poor results in a sample like that.

* It was administered as the patient was near death. Again a totally absurd way of conducting a study...unless you were trying to prove a point! This is not how hospitals & real studies are using HCQ. The earlier it's administered the better the results. Why do you think many hospitals are STILL using HCQ if it's so 'dangerous'? If it was shown to be dangerous, hospitals would stop using it prior to the study being completed. Hmm.

* It was administered to patients only after they had been intubated. Again, incomprehensible.

* The Secretary of Veterans Affairs had to admit the weakness of the study in an interview on TV

* The renowned French virologist who has treated over 1,000 patients, with a 91% success using HCQ with no side effects, excoriated the 'study' essentially saying it wasn't a study at all and actually called it 'scientific misconduct'. The following points were from his multi-page response:

- Lymphopenia was twice as common in the HCQ group as the non-HCQ group. Lymphopenia has a known correlation with death rate

- Incomprehensibly, the untreated group actually received Azithromycin in 30% of cases without the group being analyzed in any distinct way. Azithromycin is also a proposed treatment for COVID with in-vitro efficacy

- Administering HCQ so late is unreasonable because the cytokine storm has already set in and it's unlikely HCQ alone would be able to control patients at that stage of the disease.

So in other words the study was either so poorly conducted, a High School student could have done it. I could give a second reason for why it was so poorly done, but I won't. Now the French doctor is smart enough to have administered HCQ to his patients much earlier on and thus his wonderful results.

I just find it absolutely fascinating to see those on the left, like yourself, always trying to refute the drug's efficacy. Why? Because Trump appreciated some of the early results he was seeing, that's all. He always said 'Ask your doctor'. So if Orange Man likes it, it's bad. Seeing clips form CNN & MSNBC were hysterical. The anchors were smiling over this report. SMILING! Why in God's name would you smile if one of the hoped for drugs was shown to be ineffective. Why? Again, a total lack of concern for people. Their only never-ending interest is to bring Trump down. The media is despicable!!

 

[Ken7]

Were the numbers any different in the others?
Guess not or you would have said so.

Yes they were. Read them if you have any intellectual curiosity. I didn't even want to paraphrase, I just gave you the sources. I give up. Ba bye.

 

[pbojanoski]

And I believe too many people are remain focused on the economy without mentioning the lives lost. 2,139 Americans died from Covid-19 yesterday. That’s 332 more Americans than the 1,806 that die each day, on average, from heart disease, the former leading cause of death in the US.

Some people think the economy is more important than human lives and the people they leave behind. I don’t.

I can't believe I have to say this, but straw man arguments seem to constantly demand it. Every life is precious, no doubt, but the world continues to spin whether we like it or not. Death is a part of life.

How many died yesterday from heart disease or cancer? How many died from obesity, drug abuse, murder? How many normally die in car accidents? We could be using the force of government to stop many of these deaths too, but we don't. Why don't we do it?

We don't because we live in a free society. People need to take personal responsibility for their health. While you continue to demonize, I have continually given a constructive path forward to saving lives in the COVID-19 fight and saving the economy. We CAN do both. Nobody will force you to do anything.

Why must you force others to stay home with no paycheck, missing other needed healthcare, losing housing, going bankrupt, etc. when others can make that choice for themselves???

Require masks. Require social distancing. Require hand washing. Let businesses enforce those requirements. Let people who choose to live their lives, do just that.

I ask again, when our economy goes into a depression, how many will die? How many that survive will have their standard of living destroyed?

Why is there no compassion for those who's livelihoods and families are being destroyed economically?

And all this when 99% or more of those infected will survive. Protect the vulnerable. Allow people to protect themselves as they see fit. Allow others to try to save their families and livelihoods.

I still cannot understand how any of the above is even a little controversial.

 

[pbojanoski]

About a month or so ago, I posted a comment something like this "I don't mean to offend anyone, but shouldn't we, on a car forum talk about the MME......I didn't say anything about what people should do, but said what I would do in terms of getting my info on the virus.......one poster jumped all over me, of course, misquoted me as well.......all I did was state my opinion........after not visiting this forum, but going to the other, I decided to take another look here......the car info is great here but who needs this hatred that is going on both sides of this political stuff......I consider myself a conservative progressive and I have a question that I asked my friends on both sides, "What if it was Obama saying and doing what Trump is?, would the Obama people suddenly begin to support him, and would the Trump supporters suddenly begin to disagree with Obama???........in your mind switch the roles, and answer the question in your mind, would your opinion on what's going on change because of who is saying it or truely what is said........if it was MSNBC saying what FOX is saying, and FOX saying what MSNBC was saying would your opinion be different......I ask my friends NOT to answer me, but just keep the answer to themselves.........I hope all are doing well, and are keeping as safe as their opinions allow......

I think in this you are a wise sage @c max. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[c max]

i agree 100%........and just to make clear, another way to say conservative progressive might be conservative "liberal", although I don't like the term "liberal"........and what I was hoping for was for people to rethink some of their positions and end some of this unnecessary hatred being spread on this car forum

 

[Redundant]

Wow... it’s like a war zone in here! Go easy on each other... things are bad enough at the moment, this forum should really be a safe space!

Did anyone catch the article on LG Chem? They have gotten approval from the polish government to fly in battery engineers from South Korea to continue their battery production. There won’t be a hold up on their side, which is great news!

haha. It seems that way, doesn't it. I will say for the most part, it has been respectful. I was guilty of jumping in on politics on this discussion, and that was wrong. There is a post that is more specific to the politics of the virus and that is where I am trying to direct my comments.

So, go LG Chem!!

 

[ChasingCoral]

I just find it absolutely fascinating to see those on the left, like yourself, always trying to refute the drug's efficacy. Why? Because Trump appreciated some of the early results he was seeing, that's all. He always said 'Ask your doctor'. So if Orange Man likes it, it's bad. Seeing clips form CNN & MSNBC were hysterical. The anchors were smiling over this report. SMILING! Why in God's name would you smile if one of the hoped for drugs was shown to be ineffective. Why? Again, a total lack of concern for people. Their only never-ending interest is to bring Trump down. The media is despicable!!

Wrong assumption.

I'd be thrilled if studies other than the non-reproduced French study were showing promise. I really wish we had something this easy as a treatment. If not chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine, one of the anti-virals. The problem I have is that it is irresponsible for politicians to recommend widespread, uncontrolled use of unproven drugs that even their own experts on the same dais are warning need more testing. "What can it hurt"? Significant heart issues have been shown in the VA study, the Brazilian study, and others. It has also resulted in shortages of the drugs for people who need them for auto-immune conditions like lupus. I'll address the VA study in a separate email.

The sooner we find a working treatment the better. I don't care who's product it is. We need treatments that work without severe or potentially fatal side effects to help restore both consumer confidence and the confidence of workers to get Ford back up and running.

 

[timbop]

The problem I have is that it is irresponsible for politicians to recommend widespread, uncontrolled use of unproven drugs that even their own experts on the same dais are warning need more testing. "What can it hurt"? Significant heart issues have been shown in the VA study, the Brazilian study, and others. It has also resulted in shortages of the drugs for people who need them for auto-immune conditions like lupus.

Exactly this.

 

[pbojanoski]

Exactly this.

Of course nobody can just go to the drug store and self medicate. A doctor must prescribe it.

I still fail to see how someone looking for answers and potentially finding one in an FDA approved drug is all of a sudden potentially "murdering" people for suggesting they look at it as an option. Did the drug get more attention, yes. Did that force doctors to prescribe or patients to take it? No.

Is it still a potentially useful medication going forward? Yes.

Is it a panacea and solves all of our problems? Clearly, no.

 

[Ken7]

Wrong assumption.

I'd be thrilled if studies other than the non-reproduced French study were showing promise. I really wish we had something this easy as a treatment. If not chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine, one of the anti-virals. The problem I have is that it is irresponsible for politicians to recommend widespread, uncontrolled use of unproven drugs that even their own experts on the same dais are warning need more testing. "What can it hurt"? Significant heart issues have been shown in the VA study, the Brazilian study, and others. It has also resulted in shortages of the drugs for people who need them for auto-immune conditions like lupus. I'll address the VA study in a separate email.

Of course we know you’re speaking of Trump. Duh. You would actually have been more forthright in your statement if you named him and also included the fact that he also stated each time to ask your doctor about HCQ. Of course you know that either way you can’t get it without a doctor’s approval anyway. The doctor would have to agree the drug might be worthwhile in your case. It’s not OTC. A minor point.

The French study showed no side effects and no heart issues in any of the over 1,000 patients.

I would ask you this, if you had the virus, were faced with worsening symptoms and your doctor suggested HCQ, would you say no?

Finally, at this point, there is not the shortage there was a month or more ago. There are millions and millions of additional doses now. Many are receiving the drug now both inside and outside of the hospital environment.

I look forward to you refuting the French virologist’s response to the very poorly conducted VA study...so poor that the Assistant Secretary of the VA had to state how poorly done it was. I’m sure you can find some esteemed writer or commentator for the Washington Post, NYT, CNN or MSNBC, who has a learned rebuttal. As I said, I see little point in continuing this. Orange Man bad. What more needs to be said?

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