GMC Hummer EV....well, that escalated quickly (ADM)

[dml105]

Here's the deal regarding a signed contract with agreement that they will sell at a price. What if that individual is no longer employed by that business? They no longer represent that business, rendering said contract null and void, at least with that dealer. You get a signed contract with one signature of one individual a year prior to arrival, entirely possible that they might not be there at delivery.

Unethical is still wrong, and it has nothing to do with the buyer exercising "personal responsibility". It has everything to do with the seller being a freaking crook and a swindler. How's that for "personal responsibility"? It is called bait and switch. It is considered illegal in many jurisdictions. It's also difficult to prove and harder to enforce, but make no mistake about it, it is wrong.

When you sign a contract with a company, you're entering an agreement with the company, not the person that signed it. That signature binds the company even after the employee leaves.

I think someone upthread said it best: it would be like you buying something on Amazon, and when the UPS guy arrives, they say "we want another $10 or we're keeping it."

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[dml105]

Id argue that you already have a legally binding agreement. With the manufacturer not the dealer, but that doesn’t mean it’s not legally binding.

This. I think these people complaining about markup should threaten to sue GM for specific performance.

 

[JoeDimwit]

If this is what the dealer is doing, then in my opinion it is illegal. The employee is a representative of the company they work for, and by singing a purchase agreement with the dealer's name on it, they are committing the dealer to sell the car for a consideration of $500. That is a contract. Without the $500 they might be able to argue that it is not a binding contract, but the dealer took the $500 and signed an agreement with the specified price.

If you don't have a signed agreement, then the dealer agreed to sell the car but there is nothing in writing from them saying how much they would sell it for. I do understand why people think the on-line process is like a contact, but that on-line process is with the car manufacturer, not the dealer.

It appears I am the only one who thinks the Hummer buyer is at fault. That is OK, diversity of opinion is good IMO.

And I do understand why people who place an order request with the car manufacturer think it is the same as signing a purchase agreement with a dealer. When I placed my order request with Ford, I was also not clear regarding what that meant. But my ignorance is not an excuse.

I would be angry if this happened to me, but is my responsibility to clearly understand what I am doing with my $60,000. If making sure I know exactly how much I am going to spend is important to me, and it is, it is my responsibility to make sure I have everything I need to protect myself from a price increase. Sorry, but I disagree that an order request with GM is he same thing as a signed purchase agreement with the dealer that ends up receiving that request.

Maybe where we agree is on the car manufacturers' responsibility: I think they need to make it more clear exactly what is happening when you place an order request via their web site and that the order is not finalized until you sign a purchase agreement with a specific dealer. If enough people get upset about it, then they will be motivated to make it more clear.

Then force the manufacturer to make good on the contract you have with them.

At the very least, you shouldn’t have to assign your order to a dealership until you have a signed purchase agreement with the dealership. If dealer A wants to add $0.01 to the price of a vehicle to adjust for local market values, and dealer B doesn’t, my order should be portable enough that I can buy from dealer B. When dealer A gets tired of paying utility bills without selling vehicles, they will knock this bullshit off on their own.

 

[AKgrampy]

Id argue that you already have a legally binding agreement. With the manufacturer not the dealer, but that doesn’t mean it’s not legally binding.

That is the way it should be but the manufacturer can not sell directly to a customer so it is not possible to have an agreement. That is also why the $500 is sent to the dealer. I did not order on line but my understanding is there is some fine print saying the deal is not done until confirmed by the dealer but I could be wrong on this. Bottom line though is I agree that it should be like your position but legally I do not think correct.

 

[Jimrpa]

Consideration = money changing hands = down payment

So it’s not a valid contract, enforceable at law, until consideration “occurs”? If I have a signed contract with my lawn mowing service and they mow my lawn, then I don’t pay them, they can’t sue me for breech of contract?

 

[Jimrpa]

When you sign a contract with a company, you're entering an agreement with the company, not the person that signed it. That signature binds the company even after the employee leaves.

I think someone upthread said it best: it would be like you buying something on Amazon, and when the UPS guy arrives, they say "we want another $10 or we're keeping it."

I think a better example would be Amazon showing up at the door and demanding extra money. Remember, you buy cars from dealers (in almost all cases). That’s why I’m deliberately leaving any mention of the manufacturer out.

 

[dml105]

I think a better example would be Amazon showing up at the door and demanding extra money. Remember, you buy cars from dealers (in almost all cases). That’s why I’m deliberately leaving any mention of the manufacturer out.

When I put my deposit down for my MME, that money went to Ford, not a dealership.

The way I see it, Ford then sold my contract to the dealership. Had they altered the terms, they would have been in violation of the contract they bought from Ford.

 

[Jimrpa]

When I put my deposit down for my MME, that money went to Ford, not a dealership.

The way I see it, Ford then sold my contract to the dealership. Had they altered the terms, they would have been in violation of the contract they bought from Ford.

No. You have the Ford Motor Company money to purchase a reservation slot. That $500 reservation fee was refunded and a deposit made to the dealer.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

Internet attorneys.... Is anybody here an ACTUAL attorney specializing in contract law?

I know Ford and dealers have them.

 

[dml105]

Internet attorneys.... Is anybody here an ACTUAL attorney specializing in contract law?

I know Ford and dealers have them.

I don't think actual attorneys would admit it here. (But yes, there are actual attorneys on this site.)

 

[JoeDimwit]

No. You have the Ford Motor Company money to purchase a reservation slot. That $500 reservation fee was refunded and a deposit made to the dealer.

If you order a vehicle (not reserve, but actually order), and pay a deposit at that time, that’s an enforceable contract.

 

[AKgrampy]

So it’s not a valid contract, enforceable at law, until consideration “occurs”? If I have a signed contract with my lawn mowing service and they mow my lawn, then I don’t pay them, they can’t sue me for breech of contract?

That is why I am not an attorney! You are correct. The consideration is the price agreed to between you and the party to the agreement. With a vehicle that agreement is between you and the dealer and not you and the manufacturer. I imagine the real reason dealers are asking for the $500 is as a penalty if the person who orders the vehicle walks away from the deal. Or Ford wants that so that dealers do not file fake orders which are an issue and a way to attempt to get around allocations.

 

[MachEMaster]

Just give up your reservation, and let Jay Z buy it.

 

[Jimrpa]

If you order a vehicle (not reserve, but actually order), and pay a deposit at that time, that’s an enforceable contract.

I am not knowledgeable enough about contract law to be able to comment authoritatively (hence my disclaimer). I’m just trying to recall introductory law from business school that I took a LONG time ago. I believe my law professor said that the underlying philosophy dated back to England, where the presumption was that “gentlemen” would always honor their agreements, even if no writing existed.

 

[Maquis]

No. You have the Ford Motor Company money to purchase a reservation slot. That $500 reservation fee was refunded and a deposit made to the dealer.

Correct. I reserved the night of the reveal. My credit card showed Ford as the merchant. As soon as I converted to an order online, that payment was reversed and a new one entered to my dealer.

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