Has Ford given up on the Mach-e?

[dbsb3233]

We also subsidize on the research side, battery tech etc. via our national laboratories and universities.

Sure (as do they, even more). And the consensus among most is that China is subsidizing their EV industry to an overall far higher rate than we are. And that Europe and others are. Creating an unfair imbalance.

That's not to say that we're not subsidy crazy too, of course. ?

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[rreddy3]

You are absolutely correct in noting the government subsidies the Chinese manufacturers receive. It’s the same as issue as US flag airlines face in competing with foreign flag carriers, particularly those from the UAE and Qatar. It’s tough competition.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

You are absolutely correct in noting the government subsidies the Chinese manufacturers receive. It’s the same as issue as US flag airlines face in competing with foreign flag carriers, particularly those from the UAE and Qatar. It’s tough competition.

Foreign airline subsidies are simply more obvious than the way US airlines are subsidized. The round about methods we have of paying US airlines doesn’t mean they’re not subsidized. Same with EVs.

 

[rreddy3]

How so?

 

[Herbknowsit]

N

Do you believe China is a free market? Govt forced adoption does not reflect actual consumer sentiment. In free markets EV adoption is very very low and all OEM’s are slashing their EV product plans due to lack of demand.

Not sure where you get your facts? A visit to Europe might enlighten you. While the US dithers , other parts of the world move forward https://thecityfix.com/blog/these-countries-are-adopting-electric-vehicles-the-fastest/

 

[DesignMatters]

N
Not sure where you get your facts? A visit to Europe might enlighten you. While the US dithers , other parts of the world move forward https://thecityfix.com/blog/these-countries-are-adopting-electric-vehicles-the-fastest/

Here, try the CURRENT market situation. Enjoy.


https://alternative-fuels-observato...mation/news/europes-ev-market-update-may-2024

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

How so?

In no particular order:
1. CRAF. Paid just to be part of it. Accept a contract and fly it, paid again. Accept a contract and assign it to someone else to fly it, you’re paid anyway. United, Delta, and FedEx are all members in the largest CRAF points pool. Very few CRAF flights are flown by the big 3, they’re contracted out.
2. Essential Air Service. Pay to fly uneconomical routes.
3. Fly America Act. All cargo or pax paid for by the government must travel on US airlines regardless of cheaper alternatives.
4. The Railway Labor Act. This provides an enormous degree of leverage to airlines over its employees. FedEx pilots and UAL. flight attendants both have contracts that were amendable three years ago. This protection for the airlines is unique to us and reduces airline incentive to reach contract agreements with its workforce.
4. Bankruptcy Protection. U.S. laws are uniquely favorable to companies rather than taking a more balanced approach to employees and creditor considerations.
5. Airport construction. This is funded by tax dollars as well as fees. Elsewhere airports are privately held for the public good.
6. Federal Preemption. Want to sue an airline for breach of contract under your local laws? Yeah good luck with that. It needs to happen in Federal Court.
7. Military Flight Training. Feeder routes for the airlines. Makes ab initio training less desirable.
8. Slots. New entries or foreign entries to desirable markets are excluded. In addition, airlines can sell their slots. Slots allocated to them by the government for use at a publicly held airport.

Some of these may be good and worthwhile. They’re still subsidies though and the dollar value adds up fast.

 

[rreddy3]

In no particular order:
1. CRAF. Paid just to be part of it. Accept a contract and fly it, paid again. Accept a contract and assign it to someone else to fly it, you’re paid anyway. United, Delta, and FedEx are all members in the largest CRAF points pool. Very few CRAF flights are flown by the big 3, they’re contracted out.
2. Essential Air Service. Pay to fly uneconomical routes.
3. Fly America Act. All cargo or pax paid for by the government must travel on US airlines regardless of cheaper alternatives.
4. The Railway Labor Act. This provides an enormous degree of leverage to airlines over its employees. FedEx pilots and UAL. flight attendants both have contracts that were amendable three years ago. This protection for the airlines is unique to us and reduces airline incentive to reach contract agreements with its workforce.
4. Bankruptcy Protection. U.S. laws are uniquely favorable to companies rather than taking a more balanced approach to employees and creditor considerations.
5. Airport construction. This is funded by tax dollars as well as fees. Elsewhere airports are privately held for the public good.
6. Federal Preemption. Want to sue an airline for breach of contract under your local laws? Yeah good luck with that. It needs to happen in Federal Court.
7. Military Flight Training. Feeder routes for the airlines. Makes ab initio training less desirable.
8. Slots. New entries or foreign entries to desirable markets are excluded. In addition, airlines can sell their slots. Slots allocated to them by the government for use at a publicly held airport.

Some of these may be good and worthwhile. They’re still subsidies though and the dollar value adds up fast.

Interesting. I’m enjoying the discussion. I’ll chat with you in the morning! As I recall HI is -6 hours from back east. Too late for more discussion from me. That said, it’s an interesting topic. Always something to learn. Have a great rest of your afternoon while I recede into late evening ?

 

[Herbknowsit]

Here, try the CURRENT market situation. Enjoy.


https://alternative-fuels-observato...mation/news/europes-ev-market-update-may-2024

Your reading shows what we all know-a SLOW DOWN in EV sales, yes. But the number of EV’s worldwide is growing and that means your beloved fossil fuel industry is going to lose $ unless they continue to attack alternative energy. Meanwhile, back in the real world….
https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/electric-vehicles/sweden

 

[Billyk24]

Well Ford did improve on the MME for 2024. So it's not like Ford has given up on it yet.
The dealership model needs to go or heavily reimagined. Too much overhead and sales nonsense.

The bigger question is whether Ford has given up on EV in general. Ford and GM have back pedaled on the EV push. Frankly in the EV domain, it's really Tesla and Chinese brands that are leading. Instead of spending money on R&D, these legacy makers spent on lobbying governments to put up walls. Why compete when you can monopolize? Regardless, GM and Ford are becoming less relevant in the global modern automotive marketspace.

Err, it is the consumer that plays a role. If they don't buy and units stack up on the lots, then changes occur.

 

[Billyk24]

I had a Fusion Energi with a battery problem. Overnight the the 5.7kw battery became 4.4 on the way to 3.8. When discussing KWs with the service advisor I saw his eyes glaze over. He got his mechanic whose eyes glazed over even more. I was told that it was my driving habits that caused the reduction in KWs. I tried to explain the difference between miles per KW and number of KWs available. I tried to compare it with a 20 gallon gas tank only taking 10 gallons when empty. Empty eyes. I called Ford. They gave me a case number and told me to talk to the service manager only. The service reps initially wouldn’t let me near him.
I was told years later by a service advisor at a different dealership that they rarely see the Mach e for service. The service lines were full of ICEs less than 4 years old. They had a huge service garage and had a 1-2 week wait for even an oil change. Yes - EVs are death for service departments despite all the conversations on EV forums. Mine is 2 years old and I have had it in for a nail in the tire.

The air cooled battery in the Energi series had an inept thermal regulatory system. Most owners were unaware that their driving habits help create a degraded battery capacity. I had a 2017 that only degraded from 5.6 to 5.4 when I traded it in on the Mach E last year. I didn't drive the Energi as if it was a cheap Tesla.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The air cooled battery in the Energi series had an inept thermal regulatory system. Most owners were unaware that their driving habits help create a degraded battery capacity. I had a 2017 that only degraded from 5.6 to 5.4 when I traded it in on the Mach E last year. I didn't drive the Energi as if it was a cheap Tesla.

So did you never plug it in?

 

[Billyk24]

So did you never plug it in?

Plugged in on a regular basis. Had something like 51.6 mpg average when I traded it in. The week I purchased the Energi, I had a conversation with another Energi owner who was an Engineer and Solar Energy expert who provided priceless insight into charging, thermal regulation and operations.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Plugged in on a regular basis. Had something like 51.6 mpg average when I traded it in. The week I purchased the Energi, I had a conversation with another Energi owner who was an Engineer and Solar Energy expert who provided priceless insight into charging, thermal regulation and operations.

So what did you different that made it last longer?

 

[Billyk24]

Simple stuff for engineers for air cooled battery packs: #1 get hardware and/or software to read real time values such as battery temperature, amps, state of charge, etc as the vehicle itself fails to provide such. Modify driving habits based upon what the real time values display. Use more level 1 charging which uses like 3 amps while level 2 which used like 9.8 amps and created more heat into the battery pack. Charging in step fashion-letting the battery cool for time frame before resuming more charging. Many owners state the battery fans come on when charging due to hearing a fan run but that was "mostly" unture as it was the inverter fan running. There is a trick to have the battery fan run during charging but I will let interested parties look at the various forums for that vehicle.

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