Have values tanked this much?

[azerik]

< bought for $55k in Jan '23 used (10k on it)
< $25k in Oct '23 Ford trade offer (33k on it)
< $21k in Oct 23 Carvana

HOWEVER.
Local '22 GT's = ~$45k
Local '22 Prems = ~$40k
Local '22 GTPE's = ~$55k

If I could actually get a GTPE for mid 40's I would in a heartbeat, even taking the pounding on trading mine in.

We are driving what is essentially a 1st gen EV from Ford.

Not really. Some of us are actually driving the first gen EV. The Focus EV. Battery tech has NOT changed for Ford since I bought my Focus in 2012. If the MME isn't using the same OBCC I'd be amazed. I've put over 160,000 miles on a pair of these Focus EV's, with 'only' 1 battery failure.

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[GreaseMonkey]

Yes, and I tried to convince our fellow forum members to NOT pay anything above MSRP because they would soon regret it after the tide recedes. Even I didn't see this large of drop coming though.

Now while I realize that some needed cars right away, I would never have purchased a car for 5 k or more above MSRP when one could have purchased a hybrid at a much lower rate at that time.

I ordered mine at MSRP with all of the incentives at the time purchasing it and I still feel duped.

No one knows the future but the advice still stands that no one should pay a nickel above MSRP unless you have money to burn. ?

Just imagine those suckers that paid above MSRP for used cars with no tax credit. Some most likely lost 40 k in just a little over a year. Now that is a gut punch I am sure.

But they wanted it NOW!

 

[superdave80]

In terms of the curve, yes that is due to battery chemistry. I am not sure how much they are claiming solid state will change that. As the space to stuff the electrons gets smaller you've got to reduce how fast you are stuffing them in. AFAIK that applies regardless of the battery technology.

But you claimed it was the wiring limiting the charging speed, not the battery chemistry.

"My understanding is that the lower charging speed is due to the wiring in the car, not so much the battery itself. "

 

[DennisD]

But they wanted it NOW!

Yes, and they over paid due to their impatience.

Once again, if they paid cash and had piles of it I would not Judge.

If they borrowed money to purchase it, let's just say they made a very unwise decision. I also wanted it "NOW" but then again, I wanted a big house, new car etc. when I was 20 years old but I knew that would be ill advised of me to borrow on something that I should have waited for.

I would be willing to wager that more people than not borrowed money when spending over MSRP than those that waited that could have paid cash for their purchase. Unfortunately, that is why many people end upside down with their finances.

 

[BMT1071]

But you claimed it was the wiring limiting the charging speed, not the battery chemistry.

"My understanding is that the lower charging speed is due to the wiring in the car, not so much the battery itself. "

The wiring limits the peak speed.

 

[azerik]

1C charge rate directly relates to the size of the battery.

SR's 1c is 70kWh
LR's 1c is 90kWh
My Focus's 1c is 35kWh.
It's only because Ford shoots for longevity of the battery. Kia etc I think target killing the packs right around 5~7 years. The reason? Look around for some 10 yr old Kia's. Not many to be seen. You probably can't walk 20 feet without running into a 15+ year old F150, Silverado, RAM, Mustang, Charger etc

But they wanted it NOW!

Yep, I did that. Jumped on a Prem ER because it wasn't $65k+ in January. I didn't have to have it that week, but in my defense there still wasn't really any around me until after April this year.

 

[BMT1071]

Yes, and they over paid due to their impatience.

Once again, if they paid cash and had piles of it I would not Judge.

If they borrowed money to purchase it, let's just say they made a very unwise decision. I also wanted it "NOW" but then again, I wanted a big house, new car etc. when I was 20 years old but I knew that would be ill advised of me to borrow on something that I should have waited for.

I would be willing to wager that more people than not borrowed money when spending over MSRP and those that waited that could have paid cash for their purchase. Unfortunately, that is why many people end upside down with their finances.

Paying cash at the interest rates that were available when most people paid ADM was a terrible financial decision. With the cost of borrowing that low you're giving away money you could earn by investing.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Let’s do some math shall we? 2022 premium AWD ER.

Msrp: $58.8k
Minus: $2k price protection, 1.1k x-plan, 1k ford options, 7.5k tax credit, 4k state rebate

Net cost: ~$43k (I know, some are pre- and post-sales tax).

I also got ~$8-10k more than I deserve on my trade in due to pandemic shenanigans.

I will not be complaining about this purchase anytime soon.

 

[DennisD]

Paying cash at the interest rates that were available when most people paid ADM was a terrible financial decision. With the cost of borrowing that low you're giving away money you could earn by investing.

Borrowing money and paying above MSRP on something that is now worth 10 of thousands of dollars less is insane.

Many, if not most people that borrowed the money to purchase their MME most likely didn't have the cash anyway to invest.

Another tidbit of advice, investing is not a guarantee. You can lose your ass on both ends just like many people that pay stupid prices for things they don't need but rather want.

In any event, they lost their ass on this 10 fold. That was almost but guaranteed.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Borrowing money and paying above MSRP on something that is now worth 10 of thousands of dollars less is insane.

Many, if not most people that borrowed the money to purchase their MME most likely didn't have the cash anyway to invest.

Another tidbit of advice, investing is not a guarantee. You can lose your ass on both ends just like many people that pay stupid prices for things they don't need but rather want.

In any event, they lost their ass on this 10 fold. That was almost but guaranteed.

I respect what both you and @BMT1071 are saying, but I’d separate the two topics: overpaying and deciding to invest vs pay in cash. Unrelated topics.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Yes, and they over paid due to their impatience.

Once again, if they paid cash and had piles of it I would not Judge.

If they borrowed money to purchase it, let's just say they made a very unwise decision. I also wanted it "NOW" but then again, I wanted a big house, new car etc. when I was 20 years old but I knew that would be ill advised of me to borrow on something that I should have waited for.

I would be willing to wager that more people than not borrowed money when spending over MSRP than those that waited that could have paid cash for their purchase. Unfortunately, that is why many people end upside down with their finances.

I was joking. I just imagine one of my daughters stomping the ground while demanding that she gets it now. We of course got working on the marshmallow test and they are far better now.

 

[BMT1071]

Borrowing money and paying above MSRP on something that is now worth 10 of thousands of dollars less is insane.

Many, if not most people that borrowed the money to purchase their MME most likely didn't have the cash anyway to invest.

Another tidbit of advice, investing is not a guarantee. You can lose your ass on both ends just like many people that pay stupid prices for things they don't need but rather want.

In any event, they lost their ass on this 10 fold. That was almost but guaranteed.

The risk of "losing your ass" depends on what you choose to invest in. There are many guaranteed investments. The rate of return is substantially lower than when riskier investments pay off. What is fixed is the interest rate I agreed to when I bought my car. Which is very low compared to today's rates.
Trying to predict the future value of a car in the COVID/post-COVID financial environment could also be called insane.

 

[BMT1071]

I respect what both you and @BMT1071 are saying, but I’d separate the two topics: overpaying and deciding to invest vs pay in cash. Unrelated topics.

Agreed.

 

[superdave80]

The wiring limits the peak speed.

No, it does not. The battery limits the charging speed, depending on how 'hard' you want to push the charge rate of the battery (which affects longevity). I'll eat my words if you can show me a statement direct from Ford that states:

"We had battery packs that could handle 200kw, and could have matched Tesla in charging time, but we decided to double our charging time because we didn't want to put 10 lbs. of extra copper in a two-ton vehicle."

 

[BMT1071]

No, it does not. The battery limits the charging speed, depending on how 'hard' you want to push the charge rate of the battery (which affects longevity). I'll eat my words if you can show me a statement direct from Ford that states:

"We had battery packs that could handle 200kw, and could have matched Tesla in charging time, but we decided to double our charging time because we didn't want to put 10 lbs. of extra copper in a two-ton vehicle."

Well which is it then, the battery limits the speed or Ford decided to limit the speed to preserve longevity?? I would guess that Ford weighed a number of factors when setting the curve.

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