Linearity in Range vs Battery SoC%?

[silverelan]

He got 287.4 mi at 69 MPH. Extrapolating, he would get about 260 miles at 75 MPH.

Right, he was driving in a thunderstorm with crazy wind conditions during his range test. Remember how his phone was going off with severe weather warnings and he said the car was buffeting from high winds?

Kyle has said on a couple of occasions that the CA Route 1 goes 300+ miles including when he drove from CO to CA.

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[daemonic3]

As someone who pays 26c/kWh at the BEST of times (2 AM or so...) I can't even believe there's anywhere with energy so cheap in California :O

Yep! I hear ya. I checked San Jose PG&E rates and the BEST is 26c/kWh. Sacramento County is served by a municipality (SMUD) that is beloved in the community for their innovations and rates. We get 10c/kWh off-peak, and an incentive for EV of another 1.5c discount overnight if you register your EV with them. So 8.5c/kWh midnight-6am. Our county's electricity bills are regularly about 1/3 of neighbors just across the county line. It's always a fun topic at parties or dinners.

I'm sure there are several rates threads on here, I'll have to search. Very curious what people get in different parts of the country. But you can see it's not even by "state" since municipalities (city or county) absolutely destroy PG&E or Edison rates.

 

[tesla2mme]

Yep! I hear ya. I checked San Jose PG&E rates and the BEST is 26c/kWh. Sacramento County is served by a municipality (SMUD) that is beloved in the community for their innovations and rates. We get 10c/kWh off-peak, and an incentive for EV of another 1.5c discount overnight if you register your EV with them. So 8.5c/kWh midnight-6am. Our county's electricity bills are regularly about 1/3 of neighbors just across the county line. It's always a fun topic at parties or dinners.

I'm sure there are several rates threads on here, I'll have to search. Very curious what people get in different parts of the country. But you can see it's not even by "state" since municipalities (city or county) absolutely destroy PG&E or Edison rates.

PG&E is corrupt AF. And for our expensive rates we also get the privilege of our power being turned off for days at a time during “fire season”

 

[mkhuffman]

PG&E is corrupt AF. And for our expensive rates we also get the privilege of our power being turned off for days at a time during “fire season”

It is more like the government is corrupt AF. They make the rules the utilities have to follow, to everyone's detriment.

 

[RandyMache]

Honestly?

Ignore all the stuff about “keeping the battery healthy.”

If you’re driving far, charge to 100% (which is really only 90% anyways).

Sure, it’s technically best to keep it 20-80%, but even the studies that looked at battery degradation only had like a 3% difference at the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of miles based on charge cycles.

If you run your car from 100% to 0% every day and exclusively DC charge…….. you still have an 8 year warranty on the battery.

How can I like this a 1,000 X. This is also my believe.

 

[RandyMache]

The big difference between a hybrid and a BEV is the hybrid will cycle the pack way more times, so capacity retention becomes much more important in a hybrid. A cycle is one complete drain and recharge. If you drive 200 miles a hybrid, that could cycle the pack 10 times, whereas a BEV would only be one cycle. Typical lithium battery life is about 500-1000 cycles, which means the battery in a hybrid might wear out in only 20,000 miles if protection measures aren't taken. Therefore you see a 40-70% limit programmed into it so the pack will last 100,000+ miles. If you kept your BEV between 40-70% the battery would last forever, but it wouldn't be practical due to the short range available. Therefore it's okay to go further into the pack and still have it last 100,000 miles since the pack is much larger. If you want to make 100,000 miles for sure, keep it between 10-90% 99% of the time. If you want more like 200,000 miles keep it between 20-80% 99% of the time.

Charge limits are all about how long the pack needs to last before replacement. It's a balance between having range and preserving the pack. Using the entire battery (100% to single digits) on a regular basis will degrade the pack quickly, you'll probably be below 80% health before you hit 100,000 miles. 70% is the threshold for warranty replacement, but most people will be sick of the poor energy delivery long before that. At 70% health the car will accelerate much more slowly than when it was new, so you really want to make sure your battery stays above 85% health for normal performance while you own it.

I’ve read that EV batteries are a little different than regular lithium. EV’s are supposed to be able to recharge more than 4,000 + times……

 

[RandyMache]

Yep! I hear ya. I checked San Jose PG&E rates and the BEST is 26c/kWh. Sacramento County is served by a municipality (SMUD) that is beloved in the community for their innovations and rates. We get 10c/kWh off-peak, and an incentive for EV of another 1.5c discount overnight if you register your EV with them. So 8.5c/kWh midnight-6am. Our county's electricity bills are regularly about 1/3 of neighbors just across the county line. It's always a fun topic at parties or dinners.

I'm sure there are several rates threads on here, I'll have to search. Very curious what people get in different parts of the country. But you can see it's not even by "state" since municipalities (city or county) absolutely destroy PG&E or Edison rates.

I miss my days living in Montana. In 2006 my electric rate was .06 cents a kW. Even now it’s only about .09 to .11 cents where my kids live.

 

[Billyk24]

Also, I know that in the Powerboost, the hybrid algorithm keeps our battery's reported SoC% between ~40% at the low end, and 60% as the cutoff where ICE won't charge it anymore, and regen braking charging stops around 70%. Basically it keeps the battery always 40-70%! So Ford intentionally keeps it in that band to extend the life.
[/QUOTE]

Real owner experience:
2005 4WD Escape Hybrid-Ford kept the SOC% between 40 and 53%. One could go over 53% with regenerative braking but engine would turn on and burn off the excess and try to keep things around 53%. I drove mine for 14 years, up to 199,000 when rust issue failed the state inspection and I needed to trade it in. The car's hybrid battery started to display symptoms of aging and failing to hold SOC% over night around 190,000 miles.
2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid-got used with all 14,000 miles. Toyota keeps the SOC between 38 and 79%. Car currently has 99,000 miles and no evidence of degenerative battery issues via third party software and hardware. Car does not have "like" point of 53% as the Escape did.
2021 Mach E Premium 4WD extended battery. Yesterday I completed a round trip of 145 miles (to a trolley museum) with about 93 of them on the Interstate. Speed limit was between 50 and 65 mph on the Interstate as it passed on the fringes of a major city and there was a section of road construction. Temperature was 47 in the AM (rainy and misty) and all 50 in the PM. Car gave a 3.1 miles per kWh figure with auto climate control on with seat heaters. Not willing to make older passenger suffer.

This Fall temperature might be similar to your California winter temperature.

 

[DK922]

The big difference between a hybrid and a BEV is the hybrid will cycle the pack way more times, so capacity retention becomes much more important in a hybrid. A cycle is one complete drain and recharge. If you drive 200 miles a hybrid, that could cycle the pack 10 times, whereas a BEV would only be one cycle. Typical lithium battery life is about 500-1000 cycles, which means the battery in a hybrid might wear out in only 20,000 miles if protection measures aren't taken. Therefore you see a 40-70% limit programmed into it so the pack will last 100,000+ miles. If you kept your BEV between 40-70% the battery would last forever, but it wouldn't be practical due to the short range available. Therefore it's okay to go further into the pack and still have it last 100,000 miles since the pack is much larger. If you want to make 100,000 miles for sure, keep it between 10-90% 99% of the time. If you want more like 200,000 miles keep it between 20-80% 99% of the time.

Charge limits are all about how long the pack needs to last before replacement. It's a balance between having range and preserving the pack. Using the entire battery (100% to single digits) on a regular basis will degrade the pack quickly, you'll probably be below 80% health before you hit 100,000 miles. 70% is the threshold for warranty replacement, but most people will be sick of the poor energy delivery long before that. At 70% health the car will accelerate much more slowly than when it was new, so you really want to make sure your battery stays above 85% health for normal performance while you own it.

Interesting stuff thanks. I’ve been trying to find out the best SOC for the batteries, and it sounds like around 50% is the best number. The question I have is trying to keep the battery between 40-70% is going to require more frequent charging cycles. Wouldn’t that minimize the life of the battery since they have a limited life of charging cycles?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Interesting stuff thanks. I’ve been trying to find out the best SOC for the batteries, and it sounds like around 50% is the best number. The question I have is trying to keep the battery between 40-70% is going to require more frequent charging cycles. Wouldn’t that minimize the life of the battery since they have a limited life of charging cycles?

No, shallow charging cycles (+10-20%) are better for the battery than deeper charging cycles. A charging cycle is defined as 0-100%. So 40-70% would only be 0.3 charging cycles.

Setting the charge limit to 70% and plugging in every day or two is a good plan.

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