Mini rant on DC charging.

[music_cities]

My wife and I went from Tucson to Phoenix for a quick overnight trip. We have done this multiple times in the MME. It is about 250 miles RT, so a charge is needed. Yesterday on the way up stopped in Phoenix at an Electrify America location we have used multiple times. As usual 2 out of the 8 chargers down, but got one after about 10 minutes. Pull in and hook up to find it charging at 35kW. Only 3 times what I do at home. Pulled it out, but my wife remembered that Ford locations now have public CCS chargers. Went to the dealer where I bought the car - 4 charging cables on 2 posts. The the chargers directly in front of the Ford Dealership are not part of the blue oval charge network - so the chargers sitting in front of a Ford dealership have to be activated manually through the app. No labels on the posts. Finally figure out (and someone warns me the listing in the app is wrong - east post is actually west and visa versa) plug in the exorbitantly expensive chargers (25% more than any other public chargers) and it stops charing after a couple of kilowatts. Charger broken.

This morning drove to a not too far Tesla charger. 16 chargers, 8 or 9 free, one with side access. Plugged in and it worked immediately.

Some months ago we took a trip from Tucson to southern CA in the MME and also found the Tesla chargers to be totally reliable. I'm grateful Ford supplied me with a reliable adapter, but these private companies providing CCS charging should be collectively ashamed. Never again - only going directly to Tesla chargers. Hate to give Elon the money for the kilowatts, but it's not worth the agita to try anything else.

Steve

I use PlugShare to find reliable chargers and often prefer slightly slower ones next to great restaurants, or places to go for a walk/hike, since the slower ones are rarely busy and since I don’t want to have jump up in the middle of my filet mignon to move the car because it’s full. This approach gives me joy and happiness and I’ve never really been upset, except that one time at an EA charger in Northern California on a road trip.

I get that a lot of people need to get places in a hurry, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t enjoy the journey.

Sponsored

 

[moog]

2 difficult choices:

Navigate to a non-Tesla EV Charger...cross your fingers....hope it's not damaged....cross your fingers....hope it's working....cross your fingers....hope it charges at stated speed.
If it works, relax and breathe.

Navigate to a Tesla Supercharger...cross yourself...ask for forgiveness.....plug in and charge.
It works, relax and breathe.....knowing you helped a fascist.

 

[stevenschwartz]

2 difficult choices:

Navigate to a non-Tesla EV Charger...cross your fingers....hope it's not damaged....cross your fingers....hope it's working....cross your fingers....hope it charges at stated speed.
If it works, relax and breathe.

Navigate to a Tesla Supercharger...cross yourself...ask for forgiveness.....plug in and charge.
It works, relax and breathe.....knowing you helped a fascist.

As perfect a description of my dilemma as was ever stated.

 

[music_cities]

2 difficult choices:

Navigate to a non-Tesla EV Charger...cross your fingers....hope it's not damaged....cross your fingers....hope it's working....cross your fingers....hope it charges at stated speed.
If it works, relax and breathe.

Navigate to a Tesla Supercharger...cross yourself...ask for forgiveness.....plug in and charge.
It works, relax and breathe.....knowing you helped a fascist.

I have found the Flo chargers to be more reliable than the Tesla superchargers. Most of the Flo DCFCs are slower, the old ones are 50kW, the newer ones mostly 100kW, but they always work, and they are often located next to great restaurants.

 

[gman76]

I have found the Flo chargers to be more reliable than the Tesla superchargers. Most of the Flo DCFCs are slower, the old ones are 50kW, the newer ones mostly 100kW, but they always work, and they are often located next to great restaurants.

Just charged up for 10 min at a Tesla supercharger (listed as 250kW on map), during the day. I plan to charge at home most of the time. I just wanted to make sure it recognized my vehicle, joined BlueOval network yesterday, first time DC charging. Anyway as it was charging, the charge rate max'd at 53kW. I was expecting 100kW or more. Maybe you're right, the old chargers might be limited to 50kW. I happened to take a pic of the label on the charger and the CMIT ID starts with '2015'. The label says 500VDC, 350A. I asked someone in a Tesla and he was getting over 100kW. So why is the MME charging at half the rate as a Tesla?

Also it was a bit expensive for 50kW, 50cents/kWh. Would've been more fair to discount due to the lower charge rate.

 

[mdwinther35]

Just charged up for 10 min at a Tesla supercharger (listed as 250kW on map), during the day. I plan to charge at home most of the time. I just wanted to make sure it recognized my vehicle, joined BlueOval network yesterday, first time DC charging. Anyway as it was charging, the charge rate max'd at 53kW. I was expecting 100kW or more. Maybe you're right, the old chargers might be limited to 50kW. I happened to take a pic of the label on the charger and the CMIT ID starts with '2015'. The label says 500VDC, 350A. I asked someone in a Tesla and he was getting over 100kW. So why is the MME charging at half the rate as a Tesla?

Also it was a bit expensive for 50kW, 50cents/kWh. Would've been more fair to discount due to the lower charge rate.

What the battery level when you started? Charge rate depends on battery charge level, faster at lower levels and gets progressively slower as you approach full charge. This is why it's recommended to stop charging at 80% when fast charging on the road, the time it takes to go from 20 to 80% can be compatible to 80 to 100.

 

[gman76]

What the battery level when you started? Charge rate depends on battery charge level, faster at lower levels and gets progressively slower as you approach full charge. This is why it's recommended to stop charging at 80% when fast charging on the road, the time it takes to go from 20 to 80% can be compatible to 80 to 100.

I started at 64% and charged to 80%, and realize that above 80% the current backs off and if I approach the "target charge" setting, it also tails off. But I watched charge in the 64 to 75% range, it never went above 53kW. I noticed that as it approached the target charge setting, the charge rate lowered to about 27kW (I think when it hit 77 or 78%). My purpose was simply to try it out, this was my first time DC fast charging. I still can't explain why it didn't go to 100+kW charge rate. Is because the charger detected a non-Tesla vehicle? Would the Tesla app allow for higher charge rate? I'm pretty sure the std battery can be charged at 115kW (or more).

Another interesting thing: after the charging finished, the main screen displayed a message that said something like 'charge to 100% every month to maintain battery health'.

For now, I'm using Level1 charging (still waiting for the 14-50 outlet to be installed). I just drive around town, go to the office and back, no long trips planned. But if I were to drive more than 300 miles, how would I charge it, does the Blue Oval network work on superchargers, etc.

 

[mdwinther35]

I started at 64% and charged to 80%, and realize that above 80% the current backs off and if I approach the "target charge" setting, it also tails off. But I watched charge in the 64 to 75% range, it never went above 53kW. I noticed that as it approached the target charge setting, the charge rate lowered to about 27kW (I think when it hit 77 or 78%). My purpose was simply to try it out, this was my first time DC fast charging. I still can't explain why it didn't go to 100+kW charge rate. Is because the charger detected a non-Tesla vehicle? Would the Tesla app allow for higher charge rate? I'm pretty sure the std battery can be charged at 115kW (or more).

Another interesting thing: after the charging finished, the main screen displayed a message that said something like 'charge to 100% every month to maintain battery health'.

For now, I'm using Level1 charging (still waiting for the 14-50 outlet to be installed). I just drive around town, go to the office and back, no long trips planned. But if I were to drive more than 300 miles, how would I charge it, does the Blue Oval network work on superchargers, etc.

I know I've seen rates around 110-115 at superchargers, if my memory is correct this would have been shortly after plugging in with the battery at around 30%.

 

[mkhuffman]

I started at 64% and charged to 80%, and realize that above 80% the current backs off and if I approach the "target charge" setting, it also tails off. But I watched charge in the 64 to 75% range, it never went above 53kW. I noticed that as it approached the target charge setting, the charge rate lowered to about 27kW (I think when it hit 77 or 78%). My purpose was simply to try it out, this was my first time DC fast charging. I still can't explain why it didn't go to 100+kW charge rate. Is because the charger detected a non-Tesla vehicle? Would the Tesla app allow for higher charge rate? I'm pretty sure the std battery can be charged at 115kW (or more).

Another interesting thing: after the charging finished, the main screen displayed a message that said something like 'charge to 100% every month to maintain battery health'.

For now, I'm using Level1 charging (still waiting for the 14-50 outlet to be installed). I just drive around town, go to the office and back, no long trips planned. But if I were to drive more than 300 miles, how would I charge it, does the Blue Oval network work on superchargers, etc.

It is very unlikely the charging speed was limited by the charger. It was likely limited by your MME.

That is slower than I have seen at 64%, but it isn't that much slower. I suspect your battery was cold and that reduced the charge speed. See the graph below of my last EA charge. At 65%, I was getting around 80 kW. As the SoC exceeded 70%, the charging speed started dropping below 70 kW. I stopped charging shortly after that, but you can see it is pretty slow in that SoC range anyway.

If you put the DCFC station in the Ford Nav, and you are about 15-20 minutes away from the DCFC stop, the MME will warm (precondition) the battery so it will charge faster. I suspect you didn't do that this time. On a trip, definitely use the Ford Nav for that reason. It makes the DCFC experience better for sure.

 

[gman76]

Thanks Mike. Like I said this was my first time DC fast charging. I didn't precondition the battery, however it was 70F outside, so it didn't cross my mind. I did use the Ford nav system and drove to the Tesla superchargers, so maybe the battery was preconditioned, IDK. Is there a way to force preconditioning?

Anyway, I'm planning to get a Level2 charger or just the outlet. Ford Power Promise 2.0. Ford is backordered on the smaller charger, so I'm having the contractor install an outlet. Would you/anyone happen to know how much I should pay for the permit to install a 240V outlet? I think this is charge from Qmerit, the quote says $252. This seems high for an outlet. I guess it costs a lot to cross t's and dot i's. I already checked my local building authority and their permit is $52.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I started at 64% and charged to 80%, and realize that above 80% the current backs off and if I approach the "target charge" setting, it also tails off. But I watched charge in the 64 to 75% range, it never went above 53kW. I noticed that as it approached the target charge setting, the charge rate lowered to about 27kW (I think when it hit 77 or 78%). My purpose was simply to try it out, this was my first time DC fast charging. I still can't explain why it didn't go to 100+kW charge rate. Is because the charger detected a non-Tesla vehicle? Would the Tesla app allow for higher charge rate? I'm pretty sure the std battery can be charged at 115kW (or more).

Another interesting thing: after the charging finished, the main screen displayed a message that said something like 'charge to 100% every month to maintain battery health'.

For now, I'm using Level1 charging (still waiting for the 14-50 outlet to be installed). I just drive around town, go to the office and back, no long trips planned. But if I were to drive more than 300 miles, how would I charge it, does the Blue Oval network work on superchargers, etc.

You have to get the battery lower to achieve peak charge rate (below 30%). Try DC charging again at 25% or less instead of 64%. I would expect a peak charge rate around 125 kW on the LFP pack. The charge curve of the LFP is different, it slows down a lot more at higher % SoC than the extended pack.

Also, peak DC charge speed may be limited if you are not charging to 100% at least once a month. That's important to keep the charge level calibrated. It's not going to unleash the fire hose if it doesn't know how full or empty the tank is.

 

[gman76]

Thanks Lee. That explains the limited charge rate.

This is a leased vehicle, I'm not super concerned about an ideal charge/discharge regimen. But if I were to do an ideal ch/disch, what would that look like? Occasional disch to <25%, occasional charge to 100%, mostly keep in the 50 to 80% range?

Also do you know anything about how much for the Qmerit permit? $250 sounds steep to me.

 

[mkhuffman]

Thanks Mike. Like I said this was my first time DC fast charging. I didn't precondition the battery, however it was 70F outside, so it didn't cross my mind. I did use the Ford nav system and drove to the Tesla superchargers, so maybe the battery was preconditioned, IDK. Is there a way to force preconditioning?

Anyway, I'm planning to get a Level2 charger or just the outlet. Ford Power Promise 2.0. Ford is backordered on the smaller charger, so I'm having the contractor install an outlet. Would you/anyone happen to know how much I should pay for the permit to install a 240V outlet? I think this is charge from Qmerit, the quote says $252. This seems high for an outlet. I guess it costs a lot to cross t's and dot i's. I already checked my local building authority and their permit is $52.

I am not sure I understand your question about Qmerit. Is that the cost of installing the outlet and they provide all the materials, or is that just the permit cost?

If that is the cost of installation including materials, it's a good deal assuming they use a good outlet. Get a BEV rated outlet. Search the forum and you will find information here about the right outlet to get.

Don't get a cheap Home Depot one. The outlet itself will be $50-100. Although Home Depot does have BEV rated 240V outlets.

This is the one I got from Home Depot. It is the real deal and very inexpensive, relatively.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/50-Amp-...k-Heavy-Duty-1450R-B0-R10-1450R-0B0/330996322

Here is a brand name outlet that is also good. A $15 outlet is not one you should use to charge your MME.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...le-Black-1-Pack-1450W-001-1450W-000/329165093

 

[CMRD]

No, it does not. You can see the Tesla chargers in the public charging app. When you select a Tesla charger in the public charging app, it is sent to the navigation app.

Is Ford ever going to fix this. I was on a longer trip today and was trying to find a Tesla charger along the route. Can’t use the internal Sync screen to help and manipulating Ford pass is not that straight forward. Ford Pass and sync worked together. Now no. I appreciate adding the capability for Tesla. The blue oval for Tesla charging works great. Please fix Sync to work as well Ford!

 

[AhardFSU]

Is Ford ever going to fix this. I was on a longer trip today and was trying to find a Tesla charger along the route. Can’t use the internal Sync screen to help and manipulating Ford pass is not that straight forward. Ford Pass and sync worked together. Now no. I appreciate adding the capability for Tesla. The blue oval for Tesla charging works great. Please fix Sync to work as well Ford!

No one outside of Ford has the answer at this point. If you’re on a road trip trying to find a compatible Tesla charger, your best bet is to either look at the Tesla app after you’ve entered your vehicle’s data, or the ‘find us’ section under the ‘charging’ section on Tesla’s website.

Sponsored