Reopening America ?

[ChasingCoral]

The information posts keep on coming. That's good as everyone can voice
their opinion. We learn some and we disagree also. Still not on this Thread
is what I had asked in the beginning. IF the slow opening of shops etc. starts
are YOU WILLING to go out and join the crowds ? Truth be it I am not. Yes I
want to do my part but damn it they can not open this soon. So now tell
us here and now will YOU participate ?

Our family has continued to frequent essential businesses and conduct essential business activities with others during this crisis, albeit using care and following social distancing guidelines as much as possible.

Would I be willing to go out into CROWDS? Not until there is adequate testing and reliable information showing the risk has been significantly reduced. Even then, I think it will be quite a while before I'd be willing to be shoulder-to-shoulder in a theater or auditorium with strangers. I think we'll have to go through a period where such venues change their seating to allow for social distancing. Even then, I think most of us will be wearing masks for quite a while.

I expect we'll be seeing social distancing in business activities for quite a while as businesses, especially smaller ones, open up. I'll plan on following proper protocols for social distancing and mask use and will probably limit my business to those who do the same.

Of course, there are now some in our society who've decided social distancing is infringing on their rights. That brings in another problem I will personally have with crowds or large businesses: I want to be able to trust the others around me are following proper protocols, Would I want to be shopping around the folks in this photo? Not on your life. The more we see crowded mob behavior like we saw during protests in a number of states in the last week, the longer it will be before I'll trust being in public venues.

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[Sweetwater]

Our family has continued to frequent essential businesses and conduct essential business activities with others during this crisis, albeit using care and following social distancing guidelines as much as possible.

Would I be willing to go out into CROWDS? Not until there is adequate testing and reliable information showing the risk has been significantly reduced. Even then, I think it will be quite a while before I'd be willing to be shoulder-to-shoulder in a theater or auditorium with strangers. I think we'll have to go through a period where such venues change their seating to allow for social distancing. Even then, I think most of us will be wearing masks for quite a while.

I expect we'll be seeing social distancing in business activities for quite a while as businesses, especially smaller ones, open up. I'll plan on following proper protocols for social distancing and mask use and will probably limit my business to those who do the same.

Of course, there are now some in our society who've decided social distancing is infringing on their rights. That brings in another problem I will personally have with crowds or large businesses: I want to be able to trust the others around me are following proper protocols, Would I want to be shopping around the folks in this photo? Not on your life. The more we see crowded mob behavior like we saw during protests in a number of states in the last week, the longer it will be before I'll trust being in public venues.

Yes I agree with you 100%. You have stated exactly what is on my mind. We will
all now be a much different society. Thanks for a great response.

 

[Ken7]

Funny how that picture chosen was with the guy with the Trump hat. Coincidence? Unlikely. Surprised they didn't find one with a Nazi flag. Just another not so subtle way the media takes its shots. Of course some of these people were demonstrating because of the silly arbitrary edicts set in place by their Governor. I don't condone not maintaining social distances and wearing the appropriate PPE, but I sure support their right to demonstrate if done correctly.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Funny how that picture chosen was with the guy with the Trump hat. Coincidence? Unlikely. Surprised they didn't find one with a Nazi flag. Just another not so subtle way the media takes its shots. Of course some of these people were demonstrating because of the silly arbitrary edicts set in place by their Governor. I don't condone not maintaining social distances and wearing the appropriate PPE, but I sure support their right to demonstrate if done correctly.

I think you would have had trouble finding pictures that don't have any MAGA hats, Trump signs, Nazi flags, etc. That's not because of the subject choice of photographers, either. Watch the videos. Those were the decorations of choice sported by the protestors.

Silly arbitrary edicts? Let's see, Michigan has at least 32,000 cases and almost 2,500 deaths, with daily deaths hovering just below 80 still. I'm glad my governor acted even faster and harder than theirs did.

I will stand up for their right to conduct an orderly demonstration. However, they chose to intentionally violate social distancing and PPE. My concern is the next day they were walking the aisles of grocery stores or were delivering packages -- all after intentionally exposing themselves to potential infection from strangers. This comes right back to Sweetwater's question: would I want to conduct business with them or be out in crowds with them? Not worth the risk. Would I know which ones they were? No, and that's the scary part.

Let's just watch to see if the states with large, crowded protests have bump ups in their cases in a couple of weeks.

 

[pbojanoski]

At the time of her visit to San Francisco (six weeks before SF instituted stay-at-home orders), Chinese businesses were disproportionately affected in San Francisco and elsewhere. Her comments that people's concerns about China and its government should not be targeted against Chinatown and San Francisco were not inappropriate in that context. (Her exact quote given at the time: "I do think that because it started in China, there’s a concern that are the – is the Chinese government doing what it needed to do early enough, and now as we go forward. But that should not be carried over to Chinatown and San Francisco.”) There's no reason folks should still go to Wholefoods and Walmart while avoiding Asian-American owned businesses.


But again, you respond as if my son's case was an isolated incident. It was the closest to home for me, but it was just one of many reported incidents against Asian-Americans -- the others done by adults and not 10-year-olds.

People act irrationally under stress. I don't think most people will argue that point. People might have stayed away from Chinatown because of the "Wuhan China Virus", but I doubt most of it had any bigoted meaning. It was simply people making a irrational judgement based on stress. Just like buying 5 years worth of toilet paper from Costco. Certainly, prudent and measured thoughts stating the fact that Chinatown was just as good as any other area for your takeout dinner would be just fine. I can't say her motives were pure and not political, but I'm not too concerned about them in this case.

I didn't say your son's situation was "isolated" or am I trying to minimize it, I said it was understandable based on what 10 year old children do to each other. It has always happened and will always happen. I'm sure you and the school officials are working to minimize it as you should. But this is not some unusual occurrence.

 

[Ken7]

I think you would have had trouble finding pictures that don't have any MAGA hats, Trump signs, Nazi flags, etc. That's not because of the subject choice of photographers, either. Watch the videos. Those were the decorations of choice sported by the protestors.

Silly arbitrary edicts? Let's see, Michigan has at least 32,000 cases and almost 2,500 deaths, with daily deaths hovering just below 80 still. I'm glad my governor acted even faster and harder than theirs did.

I will stand up for their right to conduct an orderly demonstration. However, they chose to intentionally violate social distancing and PPE. My concern is the next day they were walking the aisles of grocery stores or were delivering packages -- all after intentionally exposing themselves to potential infection from strangers. This comes right back to Sweetwater's question: would I want to conduct business with them or be out in crowds with them? Not worth the risk. Would I know which ones they were? No, and that's the scary part.

Let's just watch to see if the states with large, crowded protests have bump ups in their cases in a couple of weeks.

I specifically stated that they demonstrate the right way, so why are you bringing this up again when we agree?

Hard to find pix without Trump hats, Nazi flags etc? Really? Maybe the sources you use. I just did a google without regard to the source and the first site that came up had plenty. In fact I could fill pages if I so chose without the Nazi flags and Trump hats. Even when there are Trump hats, many appear just as red hats, not like the pix you posted. The last one does have a 'Heil Whitmer' sign, but that's hardly someone supporting Nazis. In fact it's quite the opposite. So let's be honest about this. The picture you chose to post was deliberate so as to make the 'Trump link' with what you felt was a disorderly demonstration violating proper distancing protocols, Nazi demonstrators etc. I know the tactic well, the media adores it. I wish we could be intellectually honest here.

Oh and yes, silly arbitrary edicts? I'm not criticizing her stay at home edict, but I am criticizing her enumeration of what is and isn't acceptable in terms of what you can do and what you can shop for. Definitely silly and arbitrary.

 

[pbojanoski]

Because you keep changing your story. Is the thread quoting tool somehow making a mistake in showing that you said:


There are lots of families who have lost loved ones who would disagree with that statement.

Are you now saying is the media is getting it wrong and somehow we haven't really lost over 35,000 American lives to Covid-19 so far?
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

I never changed my story. Please elaborate where I have. "Based on recent evidence emerging, the virus seems highly unlikely to be a major issue to anyone without an underlying condition."

I believe that is true. Obviously some have died without an underlying condition or without a known underlying condition, but I didn't say "nobody will die", I said it is "highly unlikely". Please be fair when responding to my posts.

And have I once doubted the number of deaths in the USA? Nope, so I'd appreciate you providing me with a little respect and not accusing me of something I never said or implied.

We can keep going back and forth on this, but the ONLY thing I want is a constructive path forward. That you seem to want to denigrate me at every turn makes it increasing difficult to have a serious conversation. Please stay constructive and focused on a path forward. Thanks.

 

[pbojanoski]

I'll take you on your word that you didn't. I must have mixed your posts up with those of another member and I do apologize.



Yes. I see these sort of articles on a daily basis -- not sure why you aren't. Perhaps it is your sources of news. That was the very point I was making that even in the Washington Post, these are issues that have been addressed regularly. I could have conducted the same searches on any number of other well-respected news sources and given you a similar list from the last week or so. Feel free to try it.

I appreciate and accept the apology. I don't hold grudges.

I'm not saying there are no stories about the economic woes, but I don't see it as anywhere near as talked about as the virus. I think there are many reasons to believe the economic issues are as bad as or probably even worse than the virus, but I fail to see that level of reporting and "hysteria" on the subject. In fact, I do hear that people protesting the economic issues are derided and marginalized. We can say that they should maintain social distancing, but then honestly talk about why they are protesting instead of making them out to be pariahs, which seems to be out there.

 

[Ken7]

Once again to put things in perspective, here's what Betsy McCaughey, Lt. Gov of N.Y. and Chairman of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths said:

“Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.”

Someone should do the math to compare that death rate with that of the virus. I don't have the current stats on OD deaths & suicides, but it shouldn't be too tough to find.

 

[Sweetwater]

All of you are saying the same thing. We need to calm down. It's for
our own good. Stop the Trump stuff as he has made his bed and does
so every night. I don't like what Trump says but I won't let it ruin my life.
The main issue all of you speak of is the DAMN STUPID PROTESTERS!!
They ALL did and will continue to do is harm to us. They will come to
soon realize what a stupid act they have done. They gain nothing but
chance of getting and spread the virus. None of us would do what they
are doing. We all have a higher IQ than to put so many lives in danger.

 

[pbojanoski]

I'll take you on your word that you didn't. I must have mixed your posts up with those of another member and I do apologize.



Yes. I see these sort of articles on a daily basis -- not sure why you aren't. Perhaps it is your sources of news. That was the very point I was making that even in the Washington Post, these are issues that have been addressed regularly. I could have conducted the same searches on any number of other well-respected news sources and given you a similar list from the last week or so. Feel free to try it.

I accept your apology and thank you. I do not hold grudges.

I just don't think the economic woes are getting the same coverage as the virus right now and I think the economic woes either have or quickly will eclipse the virus as far as its effect on the country. For example, people protesting the "stay at home" orders are being called pariahs. While saying they should do better with social distancing, we can also honestly ask why they are protesting and not just marginalize them as "kooks" like many seem to be doing.

That's all I'm saying. Let's stay constructive.

 

[Ken7]

All of you are saying the same thing. We need to calm down. It's for
our own good. Stop the Trump stuff as he has made his bed and does
so every night. I don't like what Trump says but I won't let it ruin my life.
The main issue all of you speak of is the DAMN STUPID PROTESTERS!!
They ALL did and will continue to do is harm to us. They will come to
soon realize what a stupid act they have done. They gain nothing but
chance of getting and spread the virus. None of us would do what they
are doing. We all have a higher IQ than to put so many lives in danger.

Unfortunately it was China that made our bed as well as the rest of the world.

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