Farley: Ford EVs shockingly behind Tesla & China, but Ford can't afford to "walk away from EVs."

[phil]

I dunno about GMs commitment.

Remember when they said they will be “100% electric by 2035?”

Haven’t heard them say that in quite a few years.

Such statements are more public relations than real commitment.

That one was foolish, but GM continues to stand by it. So far.

https://autoworldjournal.com/gm-ceo-confirms-commitment/

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[dan_meh]

I can’t speak for the Chinese cars, but Ford is definitely still ahead of Tesla in terms of build quality. I know a couple of guys with 24/25 MYs, and both complain that there’s already a bunch of creaks and rattles. They like everything else about their cars, but marvel at how much better the interior of my 21 MME has held up.

Now, the software is a totally different beast. While once argue back and forth the pros/cons of Tesla’s driver assistance features, there’s no question that Tesla’s overall software ecosystem is significantly superior to Ford’s SYNC system. It’s not even close. Apple CarPlay / Android Auto help to bridge the gap some, but they’re still running on the creaky SYNC ecosystem.

Then there’s the battery and charging tech, where Ford is a bit behind Tesla and reportedly way behind the Chinese.

So yeah, Ford is behind, but Ford is good at assembling a car.

I identify with this. I rented a Tesla for a week to see if I could live with an EV. I rented the Tesla brand because it was the only one available. It taught me that I wanted an EV but not a Tesla.

Yeah, the software was better. Yes, the public charging experience was better. But I figured out the software options that I wanted and Ford delivered them. Tesla’s feature advantage was academic.

I do wish Ford had better route planning. That’s the one thing that I missed about Tesla. I won’t repeat complaints that you can read elsewhere on this forum, but either Apple or Ford needs to do better.

On the GM front, they’re on their third generation and Ford is on their second. I want Ford to skip the third gen and go straight to the fourth. Here’s how separate generations:

1. Compliance (Spark EV or Focus EV)
2. Car with batteries (Gen 1 Bolt or MME) - missing faster charging, can road trip it, but not the best at it. Lots of chips with no “zonal architecture,” which is a fancy way to say centralized compute. The bolt refresh came out with the MME.
3. Platform (ultium). I tried an Equinox EV and the route planning and software feels much more sorted. This came out as a 2024 model year. There’s no equivalent generation of the Ford.
4. Software defined vehicles and new manufacturing processes. This is where Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, and the Chinese cars appear to be.
   

Ford promises to be developing a platform with new manufacturing processes and new software. I haven’t heard GM doing the same. There were some mentions of software updates to all GM vehicles, but nothing as specific as Ford - and it’s not like Ford has been specific.

I’m frustrated with the speed of change, but I work for a giant corporation and I know how hard it is to change the culture, develop new skills, and point everyone to new goals. It’s grinding work, and most of it is repetitive: you say things over and over.

 

[SonicBlue]

The funniest thing about the MY I can’t stand is the steering wheel. It feels tiny lol. It’s probably only an inch or two less in diameter but it feels puny.

 

[bwr1338]

One of the main problems legacy manufacturers have is they are not software companies, there is a completely different mind set. They are use to individual MCUs controlling different systems in the car where for the most part you develop firmware to that limited functionality and never have to change it again.

I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if to this day the software engineers are considered less important than the “physical” development departments.

I think it is telling that out of all the updates I got for my 2024 most of them were for “improvements to doing software updates”.

Ford should team with Apple for their software. They have a huge amount of code from their self driving efforts and could easily move them to one of the best evs in the market.

 

[Mach1E]

Such statements are more public relations than real commitment.

That one was foolish, but GM continues to stand by it. So far.

https://autoworldjournal.com/gm-ceo-confirms-commitment/

I didn’t believe it when they announced it in 2021 and I believe it even less today.

Zero chance they stop selling gas powered cars by 2035….. unless they’re planning on heading towards bankruptcy again.

Not sure if they (or Ford) can “afford to walk away from ICE.”

 

[phil]

I didn’t believe it when they announced it in 2021 and I believe it even less today.

Zero chance they stop selling gas powered cars by 2035….. unless they’re planning on heading towards bankruptcy again.

Not sure if they (or Ford) can “afford to walk away from ICE.”

I'd say both GM and Ford will continue to behave based on which way they see the political winds blowing.

Neither manufacturer has any real belief in the superiority or inherent goodness of EVs. Nor does Tesla, for that matter. But they all have fervent belief in government subsidies and mandates, and corporate profit.

 

[ChrisO]

I dunno about GMs commitment.

Remember when they said they will be “100% electric by 2035?”

Haven’t heard them say that in quite a few years.

Oh I didn’t want to imply that I thought GM was committed to EVs just that at least they had more choices.

Like @sglewiswl said I expected Chinese and S Korean manufacturers to take most of the market in the future.

 

[phil]

The funniest thing about the MY I can’t stand is the steering wheel. It feels tiny lol. It’s probably only an inch or two less in diameter but it feels puny.

After four years, you still haven't gotten used to it?

Yeah, feels too small (in diameter) to me, too. Also too thick.

 

[ChrisO]

Ford should team with Apple for their software. They have a huge amount of code from their self driving efforts and could easily move them to one of the best evs in the market.

I think that would be great, but I see neither company willing to cooperate with each other.

One has to ask one’s self how the “Chinese Apple” was able to succeed in making a car that is now competitive with superior software to Tesla and faster (in both charging and 0 to 60) and better looking. The answer? They partnered with BYD.

 

[ChrisO]

BTW why the timing of this article? It isn’t like they just opened up Teslas and Chinese cars they have do this years ago.

 

[sglewiswl]

I dunno about GMs commitment.

Remember when they said they will be “100% electric by 2035?”

Haven’t heard them say that in quite a few years.

I think a lot the US auto management have convinced themselves the EVs are a fad and are fooling themselves into believing the American consumer will continue to buy ever more expensive ICE cars. Eventually EVs are going to drop below ICE prices even with tariffs. 30 minute fast charging will eventually show up everywhere. Every time I get back our 2021 Chrysler Voyager ICE I am shocked by how clunky it feels.

 

[Mach1E]

I think a lot the US auto management have convinced themselves the EVs are a fad and are fooling themselves into believing the American consumer will continue to buy ever more expensive ICE cars. Eventually EVs are going to drop below ICE prices even with tariffs. 30 minute fast charging will eventually show up everywhere. Every time I get back our 2021 Chrysler Voyager ICE I am shocked by how clunky it feels.

I dunno, based on the billions they’re spending on manufacturing plants for EVs, I don’t think they think it’s just a fad.

But right now the consumer is voting with their wallets. And they just aren’t ready to pay enough of a premium for EVs to make
them as profitable as ICE.

To be fair, the voyager isn’t exactly the latest and greatest ICE. But yeah, even drove a new Lexus last night and driving my wife’s Lincoln……. They feel so dated. Hard to compete with the smooth quiet EV driving experience.

 

[Mach1E]

I'd say both GM and Ford will continue to behave based on which way they see the political winds blowing.

Neither manufacturer has any real belief in the superiority or inherent goodness of EVs. Nor does Tesla, for that matter. But they all have fervent belief in government subsidies and mandates, and corporate profit.

I think the consumer preference and corporate profits matter more in the end than government intervention.

If EVs are going to survive long term, they need to be able to do so without the government forcing or subsidizing them. It was needed to get things going, but that ball is already rolling. Now manufacturers need to make a profitable car that people will choose to buy.

 

[Spacey]

They like everything else about their cars, but marvel at how much better the interior of my 21 MME has held up.

So yeah, Ford is behind, but Ford is good at assembling a car.

I wish my 2021 MME didn't have any rattles and squeaks...

So good at assembling a car that mine was recalled for a new windscreen and the glass roof to be resealed as the robots at the factory hadn't applied enough adhesive.

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

One of the main problems legacy manufacturers have is they are not software companies, there is a completely different mind set. They are use to individual MCUs controlling different systems in the car where for the most part you develop firmware to that limited functionality and never have to change it again.

I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if to this day the software engineers are considered less important than the “physical” development departments.

I think it is telling that out of all the updates I got for my 2024 most of them were for “improvements to doing software updates”.

Agreed, it will be interesting to see how VW does with their Rivian investment. Will Rivian just rebrand their software and stick it in VW autos? I'm sure GM & Ford and other Legacy makers think they can compete, but it is not happening so far on Software. Watching how long it takes our Sync screens to "boot up" or get "stuck" occasionally; I always wonder, "Did they get their chips out of the old Commodore 64 computers" LOL

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