Amping the Tweeters in the B&O Setup?

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

Hello friends. Was wondering if anyone has experience on running wires from an amp to tap into the stock B&O system. I am having issues figuring out how to do so. I understand the ACM is behind the media display but from what I can tell it seems the tweeter connection is FACRA. I don't want to take apart the whole dash just to tie into the actual speakers. I do eventually plan to replace the tweeters, btw. Can anyone please point in the right direction to complete this task. It's the only thing holding me up to begin the install I have planned. Thanks again!

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[rugedraw]

I know a few guys on the F150 forum tapped into the rear door speakers that are powered by the ACM in the trucks to add an amp to repower them and did it with no problems. I don't see why what you want to do would be an issue other than a dedicated amp to those tiny cardboard FoMoCo speakers will probably blow them up pretty quickly.

ACM seems to be very easy to get to in these cars. It is not directly behind the display. See attached pdf for access instuctions and wiring diagrams.

 

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

Oh, I am going to replace them. Just installing the multiple amps before I do and wanted to get that part out of the way. I am actually replacing all of the speakers but like to know what I am getting into instead of going in blind.

 

[rugedraw]

Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

Appreciate it! This was already a big help.

So I read some older threads, and am also wondering which channels I should use for my high level input (DSP has inputs), front, rear, or tweeter channels. Currently I was planning on using the rear to the PAC harness AD-FD2. decided I am not going with $500 PAC Amp kit. Going to tune the DSP to best of my abilities and go from there.

Should mention I will have three amps. One clean old school for the tweets, one 75x4 for the interior speakers, and one Mono block for one 12” sealed sub, all running from the DSP.

Plan is to replace interior speakers early next year and build a custom box for the extra cargo space for the Sub or subs pending which way I go.

 

[rugedraw]

Appreciate it! This was already a big help.

So I read some older threads, and am also wondering which channels I should use for my high level input (DSP has inputs), front, rear, or tweeter channels. Currently I was planning on using the rear to the PAC harness AD-FD2. decided I am not going with $500 PAC Amp kit. Going to tune the DSP to best of my abilities and go from there.

Should mention I will have three amps. One clean old school for the tweets, one 75x4 for the interior speakers, and one Mono block for one 12” sealed sub, all running from the DSP.

Plan is to replace interior speakers early next year and build a custom box for the extra cargo space for the Sub or subs pending which way I go.

I've dabbled with aftermarket car audio since I was a teenager, but I do not consider myself an expert at all. When I first got my truck, I was disappointed with the 18 speaker B&O system and wanted to get creative to repower it like you did, but my installer told me something along the lines of not being able to mix digital and analog signals, so tapping into the DSP to add amps was not a good idea. Don't quote me on that, but it was something along those lines.

From my understanding, to do what you want to do, you will need to rip all the B&O stuff out and use a harness to add an aftermarket DSP. Maybe the guys from @SoundsGoodStereo can chime in with their expertise on this.

 

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

I've dabbled with aftermarket car audio since I was a teenager, but I do not consider myself an expert at all. When I first got my truck, I was disappointed with the 18 speaker B&O system and wanted to get creative to repower it like you did, but my installer told me something along the lines of not being able to mix digital and analog signals, so tapping into the DSP to add amps was not a good idea. Don't quote me on that, but it was something along those lines.

From my understanding, to do what you want to do, you will need to rip all the B&O stuff out and use a harness to add an aftermarket DSP. Maybe the guys from @SoundsGoodStereo can chime in with their expertise on this.

So yes and no with the DSP. Kinda goes like so. (1) When I tap into the say rear speakers coming out of stock DSP, (2) input into my aftermarket DSP with those as a high level, (3) use my parametric input EQ to attack the roll off pending what Q factor/frequency I use, then adjust my DSP EQ, and then on top of that, adjust my parametric EQ output. All that said the lower level frequencies should not be too much of an issue, but not perfect.

Where the problem arises is the rest of stock DSP EQ slopes on the higher end since it is nowhere close to flat. I'll still be able to adjust the aftermarket DSP EQ and output parametric EQ to the sound I want but it is going to be much more tedious. I have not seen anything where the B&O can be jailbreaked in order to get a flat curve.

In the end, I think I would rather spend the time tuning then to pay the extra $500 on a flat curve with the PAC Amp Integration set.

I got all my info from the threads by @markboris @MyLittlePony2022 @ElectrikPony and @MrLoganRoss among other online resources. If any of them want to chime in before I get started I would greatly appreciate!

 

[MrLoganRoss]

The only path I would take is a MoBridge or PAC interface, plus the dsp of your choice. It’s easy, clean, and gives you the best SQ. You can keep your current speakers (except for the sub). You can use a DSP Amp combo or separates. The Helix line is quite compact for a combo. Then I would have Jeffrey Hald perform the tune remotely. For some reason imaging in the Mach-E is very hard. This is the setup I have in my MachE.

As a side note, I have my Helix V8 Mark II and PAC sitting idle, so I could post it in the marketplace if there is interest. They are from my lightning. I needed more power for the 2 OHM 8” speakers in the doors, and also more than two RCA out for my underseat transducers (hence the move to the Helix 8 ultimate in the Lightning). I went from PAC to MoBridge in the Lightning because the Mach-e has MoBridge and I wanted to keep the software and components as close to identical as possible in both cars. The Mach-e doesn’t have 3 way fronts, and so I continue to run the Helix V8 mark II in the Mach-E with no need to change anything.

 

[markboris]

Just chiming in Matt since I was tagged. You are doing more of an upgrade than I did on the Mach-E. While I have revamped entire systems like some of the others here have, all I've done on the Mach-E was add a sub and tweak the dash tweeters a bit. I would definitely get in touch with the others you tagged about your install when you have questions. Gook luck and let us know how it goes after you're happy with the results.

 

[Simprider]

Here with the same thoughts as OP but wondering if front tweeters in B&O system are full range and good quality signal? If so, I could tap to those and take input to Helix DSP/amp running active 3-way front and then piggyback signal to sub amp. Would leave DSP in place to handle rear doors - parking sensor beeps.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I think you know this, but the output to the tweeters has already been DSPed by the factory unit. So it's already had a high pass, EQ, delay, and phase changes applied. If you put in different tweeters, they will sound wrong unless you can tap into a source output before the DSP module and do your own DSP.

Not sure if you have Beosonic mode on your car, but enabling that and tweaking it has made the B&O sound "good enough" for me. So perhaps that would be a low-complexity solution for you instead of swapping out everything in the car and doing your own DSP?

 

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

I think you know this, but the output to the tweeters has already been DSPed by the factory unit. So it's already had a high pass, EQ, delay, and phase changes applied. If you put in different tweeters, they will sound wrong unless you can tap into a source output before the DSP module and do your own DSP.

Not sure if you have Beosonic mode on your car, but enabling that and tweaking it has made the B&O sound "good enough" for me. So perhaps that would be a low-complexity solution for you instead of swapping out everything in the car and doing your own DSP?

Thanks for your input! So I have found contradicting information about the signal going to the tweeters:

1. One owner reported they are actually full range but I can't find anything to actually confirm. They tapped the tweeters for high level inputs. However, the signal still contained roll off. Unconfirmed. This came from owner on DIYAudio forum. Signal comes from front ACM and not DSP according to user.

2. The tweeters have a capacitor on its backside to stop lower frequencies from getting through. Confirmed.

 

[markboris]

Matt, the audio for the dash tweeters and center channel definitely come from the ACM behind the sync display and not the DSP in the rear. I'm think when Lee was talking about the tweeters having DSP, he meant the signal going to them was rolled off, EQ'd, delay, phase, etc and not that the signal was actually coming from the DSP.

And yes those dash tweeters have a capacitor on the backside. I actually changed it to a different value. One that rolled them off a little higher. Don't remember the value but I have it posted here somewhere.

 

[xRowdyxBurnsx]

Got it. Saved me the heart ache of trying to tap into the tweeters for high level then. Back to original plan. I will have everything running off my DSP so will have to tune it all accordingly.

I may just tune everything to lower volume to reduce roll off but I will cross that bridge when I get there.

Planning on doing all of this during Thanksgiving break. My biggest worry is breaking things even with my tools. I am not a gentle person. Can’t wait to get rid of that rattling monstrosity in the rear.

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