OTA for MME is terrible

[codyrobinson]

We Picked up our FE on Feb 12th.

the updates screen says it is “up to date” but no version is shown.

Someone behind the scenes was kind enough to check for me. He says both OTAs show as delivered and installed.

so those of you who show a version… count yourselves lucky.

I got my car last week. It was a demo...I have the same issue. It says UPDATED but I have no idea what version...how can i find out?

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[TruWrecks]

Summary of this thread:

"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"

Reality:

The Mach-E uses an ABA update method.

While the current modules are using A for their image, new software is loaded into B. Then the module switches to run on B.

If there are and load errors the module switches back to A and restarts.

This prevents "bricking" because you always have a "last known good state" in one of the flash banks, A or B.

 

[ncaadam]

Summary of this thread:

"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"

Reality:

The Mach-E uses an ABA update method.

Thank you…

I’m very over the bricking argument. It makes zero sense and there is zero chance they designed the car this way.

It isn’t 1995 anymore

 

[Chuck]

Summary of this thread:

"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"

Reality:

The Mach-E uses an ABA update method.

While the current modules are using A for their image, new software is loaded into B. Then the module switches to run on B.

If there are and load errors the module switches back to A and restarts.

This prevents "bricking" because you always have a "last known good state" in one of the flash banks, A or B.

That's good in theory. I've been in the tech development field for decades and I can say with absolute certainty that there's no such thing as a "known good state." It's just a version where all of the bugs haven't been discovered. And, in fact, there could be a bug in the A/B switching.

I often jokingly tell my development staff (I have over 100 developers on my staff) that any program with more than three lines of code in it probably has a bug, we just haven't found it yet. But this statement is often more true than funny. I've seen programs that have run perfectly for 40 or more years find a bug because a specific circumstance that never occurred in the previous 40 years caused it to fail.

 

[JoeDimwit]

I have no idea what Ford's timeframe is. To them 6 weeks may be considered aggressive. And, if they find a bug the deployment will stop. It may even be rolled back. And then it starts all over again. It's not possible for them to test everything in beta and they have the added complication that weather affects how the car reacts.

I'm not sure what you mean by screwing the pooches. The fact that they can do OTA is great. Any other car Ford made before the MME was stuck the way it was for the life of the car.

I've been in the tech world for decades and the last thing I want is to be an early adopter on any device that is important to me. I've seen too many updates cause products to perform poorly or stop working at all. I have automatic updates turned off on my phone, PC and car for that reason. I'll let the rest of you be guinea pigs and when you all are reporting that it's fine I'll do the update. The downside of being first is much higher than the benefits received.

There has been no indication of people getting an update and it breaking anything. None.

So far, every update they have delivered, it has been a minimum of 5 weeks between the first reported delivery and my car getting updated. Every time. If they are having so many issues that it is taking that long to correct them and continue updating, every time, they need to hire someone that knows what the hell they're doing.

 

[JoeDimwit]

That's good in theory. I've been in the tech development field for decades and I can say with absolute certainty that there's no such thing as a "known good state." It's just a version where all of the bugs haven't been discovered. And, in fact, there could be a bug in the A/B switching.

I often jokingly tell my development staff (I have over 100 developers on my staff) that any program with more than three lines of code in it probably has a bug, we just haven't found it yet. But this statement is often more true than funny. I've seen programs that have run perfectly for 40 or more years find a bug because a specific circumstance that never occurred in the previous 40 years caused it to fail.

If there is a bug that won't surface for 40 years, for all practical purposes, that bug doesn't exist when the device running that software only has a realistic lifecycle of 20 years.

 

[buzznwood]

That's good in theory. I've been in the tech development field for decades and I can say with absolute certainty that there's no such thing as a "known good state." It's just a version where all of the bugs haven't been discovered. And, in fact, there could be a bug in the A/B switching.

I often jokingly tell my development staff (I have over 100 developers on my staff) that any program with more than three lines of code in it probably has a bug, we just haven't found it yet. But this statement is often more true than funny. I've seen programs that have run perfectly for 40 or more years find a bug because a specific circumstance that never occurred in the previous 40 years caused it to fail.

Everyone understands the safety aspect and concerns but just to beat this dead horse some more, the 1.7.1 software update is already being used in factory fresh vehicles this is not some experimental beta version for end user testing. So any bugs will be present and if found require those vehicles to be updated and based on the current state of OTA doesn't bode well for a painless dealerless visit way of things being fixed .

If the software revision has passed internal tests and deemed good enough for new factory vehicles then it should be good enough for everyone else. The only potential problems then would be down to an OTA not downloading correctly which may require some users to have to wait for a couple of attempts until it managed to get one that passes error checking. The vehicle is supposed to notify if an update will take a while to install and it needs to be remain plugged in to happen so there should be no chance of it bricking anything.

 

[Mirak]

It has nothing to do with the number of vehicles, it's entirely about catching a bug early. It would be a very bad rollout if suddenly there were 50,000 dead vehicles.

For example, when Google rolls out an update they use the following method. Their biggest concern is creating bricks.

Internal users only. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 0.01% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 0.1% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 1% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 5% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Once they get to 10% they get more aggressive and start incrementing at greater percentages.

Their rollouts have absolutely, positively nothing to do with saturating the servers. I'm sure it's the same with Ford.

@Chuck Just curious, what do you think is a reasonable time to run through these progressions?

 

[Neil4Real]

It has nothing to do with the number of vehicles, it's entirely about catching a bug early. It would be a very bad rollout if suddenly there were 50,000 dead vehicles.

For example, when Google rolls out an update they use the following method. Their biggest concern is creating bricks.

Internal users only. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 0.01% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 0.1% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 1% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Next 5% of total users. Then pause. If no failures continue.
Once they get to 10% they get more aggressive and start incrementing at greater percentages.

Their rollouts have absolutely, positively nothing to do with saturating the servers. I'm sure it's the same with Ford.

How long is each pause?

 

[burtonhen]

How long is each pause?

For most users? Seems like a month for each. I have zero confidence I’ll even see 1.7.1 at this point.

But hey, at least we got an app update that didn’t fix the app not loading range data.

 

[TuxToaster]

Summary of this thread:

"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"
"Don't brick my car!"

Reality:

The Mach-E uses an ABA update method.

While the current modules are using A for their image, new software is loaded into B. Then the module switches to run on B.

If there are and load errors the module switches back to A and restarts.

This prevents "bricking" because you always have a "last known good state" in one of the flash banks, A or B.

Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but making sure that the correct info is here for posterity: not all of the modules use the ABA method, several do use an erase and replace.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ota-updates-technical-info.4923/

 

[agoldman]

I like the apple method. anyone wants the beta, sign up, immediately available. Then on release day, anyone can install it, no waiting. bugs are always possible. that's on them to figure out. this ultra slow drip is irritating and unnecessary in my opinion.

 

[Logal727]

We’ve had ours for 3 months and only one update so far. How is my Wife’s car doing? Lol

It’s going great, still the only one around here lol. Love this car!

 

[RockwallRick]

It’s going great, still the only one around here lol. Love this car!

We have too many Carbonized Gray MME’s in our area!! I know yours was built in July, but did it come with 2 Key Fobs? Just curious, we gave up on PAAK and obtained another Fob for ours.

 

[imstriker]

I offered in the past to start a GoFundMe for Ford to purchase a single Android phone to test on and you all really didn't join me. So, new idea...

Let's start a GoFundMe for Ford to purchase a 56k modem. With that connecting their data center, they could probably double to updating 2 cars per day. Not to mention the cool modulation sounds they would gain. We could even consider funding their monthly AOL bill for a year?

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