DevSecOps
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Todd
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2021
- Threads
- 69
- Messages
- 4,740
- Reaction score
- 11,500
- Location
- Sacramento, CA
- Vehicles
- '21 Audi SQ5 / '23 Rivian R1T / '23 M3P
- Occupation
- CISO
- Thread starter
- #1
FIRST AND FOREMOST:
I am creating this thread to challenge ideas and to have a creative discussion using facts. I intend for this to be an educational experience (high hopes, I know).
WARNING: This has turned into a long long read...
RULES REGARDING FACTS:
Every data point should be backed with factual evidence of the claim (as reasonably as possible). Facts are not posts by media outlet pundits. Facts should not from far left or far right outlets. So nothing from WaPo, Vox, Breitbart, etc, etc. Cite your sources!!! If you disagree with a source say why. It's ok to disagree and it's ok to hypothesize and ask questions, just try to take a balanced approach.
RULES REGARDING POLITICS:
I will flag every comment for removal that is biased and non-fact based solely for the purpose of pushing political agendas. This applies to all sides. If you want to start a thread about politics go do that. This isn't the thread for it and I hope the forum moderators will honor these rules.
SOLAR:
The argument of "solar" is not to be used unless it's regarding grid power. Yes, if you charge during the day using a solar array, we get it... This isn't a thread about solar and it's impacts which is a completely different subject and argument regarding ROI on it's footprint, farming materials and destruction/chemical impact.
THE TOPIC:
Are EV's really the answer to a lower carbon footprint?
The Government provides a website to check your carbon footprint of EV's, also known as "beyond tailpipe emissions". The MME GTPE, which I have, uses power which amounts to 200g/mi based on energy production throughout the ENTIRE day (cited). It's important to note that it's the entire day because if you only charge at night, that number goes up significantly due to the decrease in green energy production. Do you think this website accounts for line loss and EVSE loss?
What I've always found astonishing is that it's almost impossible to find g/mi numbers for gas/ICE vehicles. Why aren't these numbers published like the EV numbers are? (EDIT: I've corrected this past statement many times below) My guess is because if you look at the ones published by some of the mfgs you'll see that higher mpg vehicles can achieve 50g/mi in emissions (cited). Of course there's other impacts such as refinement and drilling etc that one could argue and boiling a number down to a gallon seems hard to find. Additionally, since we derive NG and LPG from refinement how much of the refinement GHG actually account for the per gallon of gasoline number? I would love for someone who has that data to present it in a non-biased way. I think education and truth behind the data is fascinating.
How do PEV vehicles impact these numbers? Is that really the best way since those numbers appear to be lower than BEV (cited)? What about ICE gas alternatives like eFuel (cited)?
On a personal note:
Let me make clear that I'm all for reducing the carbon impact reasonably, efficiently and safely. I own an EV and an ICE vehicle. I want technology to find cleaner, better ways for vehicle propulsion. I like keeping my mind open to all avenues and sometimes I think that as a society we pigeonhole ourselves into things that end up being worse than we originally thought. I never believe things because "I saw it on TV". I think things out and play devils advocate trying to disprove all angles for the sake of getting to the truth. 15 years ago I remember our government pushing CFL Bulbs on us because "Electricity was bad" and we had to reduce usage to save the world.
I am creating this thread to challenge ideas and to have a creative discussion using facts. I intend for this to be an educational experience (high hopes, I know).
WARNING: This has turned into a long long read...
RULES REGARDING FACTS:
Every data point should be backed with factual evidence of the claim (as reasonably as possible). Facts are not posts by media outlet pundits. Facts should not from far left or far right outlets. So nothing from WaPo, Vox, Breitbart, etc, etc. Cite your sources!!! If you disagree with a source say why. It's ok to disagree and it's ok to hypothesize and ask questions, just try to take a balanced approach.
RULES REGARDING POLITICS:
I will flag every comment for removal that is biased and non-fact based solely for the purpose of pushing political agendas. This applies to all sides. If you want to start a thread about politics go do that. This isn't the thread for it and I hope the forum moderators will honor these rules.
SOLAR:
The argument of "solar" is not to be used unless it's regarding grid power. Yes, if you charge during the day using a solar array, we get it... This isn't a thread about solar and it's impacts which is a completely different subject and argument regarding ROI on it's footprint, farming materials and destruction/chemical impact.
THE TOPIC:
Are EV's really the answer to a lower carbon footprint?
The Government provides a website to check your carbon footprint of EV's, also known as "beyond tailpipe emissions". The MME GTPE, which I have, uses power which amounts to 200g/mi based on energy production throughout the ENTIRE day (cited). It's important to note that it's the entire day because if you only charge at night, that number goes up significantly due to the decrease in green energy production. Do you think this website accounts for line loss and EVSE loss?
What I've always found astonishing is that it's almost impossible to find g/mi numbers for gas/ICE vehicles. Why aren't these numbers published like the EV numbers are? (EDIT: I've corrected this past statement many times below) My guess is because if you look at the ones published by some of the mfgs you'll see that higher mpg vehicles can achieve 50g/mi in emissions (cited). Of course there's other impacts such as refinement and drilling etc that one could argue and boiling a number down to a gallon seems hard to find. Additionally, since we derive NG and LPG from refinement how much of the refinement GHG actually account for the per gallon of gasoline number? I would love for someone who has that data to present it in a non-biased way. I think education and truth behind the data is fascinating.
How do PEV vehicles impact these numbers? Is that really the best way since those numbers appear to be lower than BEV (cited)? What about ICE gas alternatives like eFuel (cited)?
On a personal note:
Let me make clear that I'm all for reducing the carbon impact reasonably, efficiently and safely. I own an EV and an ICE vehicle. I want technology to find cleaner, better ways for vehicle propulsion. I like keeping my mind open to all avenues and sometimes I think that as a society we pigeonhole ourselves into things that end up being worse than we originally thought. I never believe things because "I saw it on TV". I think things out and play devils advocate trying to disprove all angles for the sake of getting to the truth. 15 years ago I remember our government pushing CFL Bulbs on us because "Electricity was bad" and we had to reduce usage to save the world.
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