Pay $4000 over sticker for basically a left over

[Jbkimmel]

I think we’ve successfully beaten this one into the ground. Now, if anyone wants to opine on how the rapidly growing Ukraine crisis will affect the global economy and MME sales in turn, I’m all ears. ?

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[BMT1071]

I apologize if "sucker" was too harsh. I'm born and raised in New York where calling someone a sucker is basically a compliment.

But I also stand by the fact I would highly not recommend someone pay an ADM under pretty much any circumstances. To each their own and if they want the car that badly, sure go for it.

Just know that all the polls of owners are saying that they paid MSRP for the car. Meaning it's possible.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/poll-nearly-all-ford-mustang-mach-e-owners-paid-msrp-or-less

Before the current market paying, MSRP was foolish, so to me paying more than MSRP is baffling.




Just because the housing market is crazy, doesn't mean I have to join the crazy-train and willingly overpay. I'll be buying a new home next year instead of now.

Reasons not to pay an ADM:

• It's not good financial practice to willingly overpay for a depreciating asset
• Ford literally has a suggested price they deem fair and recommend you pay for the vehicle
• The seller does not set market value, the market does. So the only reason ADM's exist is that people keep self-selecting to pay them. Stop doing that.
• In a few years, things will go back to normal and dealers will be begging people to buy new cars
• There are a ton of ethical dealers out there willing to sell you the car at MSRP. You just need to be willing to do some work to find them.
• If you dig yourself in this hole now, you will be in it for a while. As in, when you trade this car in for a new car in 2027 or so. The extra money you paid for the car will come into your mind when you get the current trade-in value of the car. (I hope that makes sense)

Reasons to pay an ADM:

• I really want the car.

I, like all of you, make good money. (this is in reference to the bloke who said to me "some of us make good money blah blah blah. Yeah bud, join the line. We all bought the same car lol.) Most ADM's would be negligible to me over the entire ownership of the car.

If you happily paid an ADM, no need to justify your decision to me. It's your money.

Just don't try and tell me it was a "wise" decision. Like when I overpay at the tailors because I enjoy the service and atmosphere. It's not "wise" but I'm willing to do it.

 

[yngwenli]

Just because the housing market is crazy, doesn't mean I have to join the crazy-train and willingly overpay. I'll be buying a new home next year instead of now.

This really is silly IMO. No one knows what will happen. My advice is buy if you want/need to live in a home and don't see it as an investment. A neighbor was SOOOO sure housing prices peaked and sold < 3-4 years ago. His place is now up like 80%. You can't make that much $$ in most jobs.

Do not assume the housing market will do what you expect, any market can be irrational longer than you can wait/live your life. The market and supply is so low that things sell in < 1 week in my area. Those people buying have tons of $$/all cash offers/no contingency, so unlike the housing market crash of 2008-2009, people have a lot of skin in housing and they will just wait if it goes down or the older home owners have tons of home equity now that it's near impossible for them to get foreclosed on.

I know folks that have been waiting to buy a home for 5+ years and some, 10+ years. In that time, their rent has doubled or more. My mortgage is honestly more than half less than people's rent around me.

Next year's home price could be 10%+ more than this year's home prices. It's been a rocket ship for the last 10 years or so I have doubts you magically know housing prices will be down next year.



As for cars, I think manufacturers are going to be in a new model of not having cars sit on lots. EVs will be in massive demand I think for the forseeable future and with gas prices over $5 in CA and high everywhere, it sucks and I see people paying $100/week in gas alone and those folks may all want to move to an EV.

Every new F150 EV, Silverado EV, MME, Tesla is probably sold out for all of 2022. Things aren't fixing itself anytime soon.


Making good $$ is also relative. I know folks who "think" they make good $$, but if you know billionaires and multi-millionaires and you were on welfare, it's hard to know what "good $$" is one person's good $$ is another's "so poor".

No one said ADM is wise, but really, it takes work/time to get a deal or MSRP pricing and you have to wait. Some people don't like to wait.

 

[JerryL]

This really is silly IMO. No one knows what will happen. My advice is buy if you want/need to live in a home and don't see it as an investment. A neighbor was SOOOO sure housing prices peaked and sold < 3-4 years ago. His place is now up like 80%. You can't make that much $$ in most jobs.

Do not assume the housing market will do what you expect, any market can be irrational longer than you can wait/live your life. The market and supply is so low that things sell in < 1 week in my area. Those people buying have tons of $$/all cash offers/no contingency, so unlike the housing market crash of 2008-2009, people have a lot of skin in housing and they will just wait if it goes down or the older home owners have tons of home equity now that it's near impossible for them to get foreclosed on.

I know folks that have been waiting to buy a home for 5+ years and some, 10+ years. In that time, their rent has doubled or more. My mortgage is honestly more than half less than people's rent around me.

Next year's home price could be 10%+ more than this year's home prices. It's been a rocket ship for the last 10 years or so I have doubts you magically know housing prices will be down next year.



As for cars, I think manufacturers are going to be in a new model of not having cars sit on lots. EVs will be in massive demand I think for the forseeable future and with gas prices over $5 in CA and high everywhere, it sucks and I see people paying $100/week in gas alone and those folks may all want to move to an EV.

Every new F150 EV, Silverado EV, MME, Tesla is probably sold out for all of 2022. Things aren't fixing itself anytime soon.


Making good $$ is also relative. I know folks who "think" they make good $$, but if you know billionaires and multi-millionaires and you were on welfare, it's hard to know what "good $$" is one person's good $$ is another's "so poor".

No one said ADM is wise, but really, it takes work/time to get a deal or MSRP pricing and you have to wait. Some people don't like to wait.

80% I don’t think so. I sold 3 properties in the last 4 years. Nothing close to 80%. My last property that I purchased in 2019 sold last year netted me a 27% profit. You must be a realtor ?

 

[Triggerhappy007]

80% I don’t think so. I sold 3 properties in the last 4 years. Nothing close to 80%. My last property that I purchased in 2019 sold last year netted me a 27% profit. You must be a realtor ?

Or live in Southern California.

 

[yngwenli]

80% I don’t think so. I sold 3 properties in the last 4 years. Nothing close to 80%. My last property that I purchased in 2019 sold last year netted me a 27% profit. You must be a realtor ?

Real estate is always local. I am in CA and prices are insane here. No, I'm not a realtor nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


Here's case-shiller data/graphs. They don't seem to follow the Philly area (if that's where you roam). Random 2017 vs. 2021 in AZ is 71% already on the "Case-Shiller Home Price Index" (report). San Diego, ~60%, LA = ~50%. Just prices I'm seeing now for listings/sold are hitting ~80% (of course, these homes depend on area, specifics to that property, etc...).

https://realestatedecoded.com/case-shiller/


I was wrong actually, the place I was watching was only 3+ years. I know they moved from out of area so I'm guessing it was cheaper still than their old place.

 

[BMT1071]

Real estate is always local. I am in CA and prices are insane here. No, I'm not a realtor nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


Here's case-shiller data/graphs. They don't seem to follow the Philly area (if that's where you roam). Random 2017 vs. 2021 in AZ is 71% already on the "Case-Shiller Home Price Index" (report). San Diego, ~60%, LA = ~50%. Just prices I'm seeing now for listings/sold are hitting ~80% (of course, these homes depend on area, specifics to that property, etc...).

https://realestatedecoded.com/case-shiller/


I was wrong actually, the place I was watching was only 3+ years. I know they moved from out of area so I'm guessing it was cheaper still than their old place.

Based on estimates, my home here in the Phoenix metro area is worth 75% more than I paid for it 5 years ago. I also am not a realtor.

 

[stryker]

See? This is a metaphor that applies!

let me ask you do you feel your being treated fairly by the dealers

 

[agoldman]

There will be a moment when more Mach e are available and supply outweighs demand, at that time these dealers are going to wish they had taken the sales when they could have

I don't think we will see that way of doing business again for a long time, if ever.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I think we’ve successfully beaten this one into the ground. Now, if anyone wants to opine on how the rapidly growing Ukraine crisis will affect the global economy and MME sales in turn, I’m all ears. ?

Ok, I’m done.

 

[Mach1E]

let me ask you do you feel your being treated fairly by the dealers

Yup.

I ordered, waited 6 months, got X plan and got way more for my trade than I thought it was worth.

And if I didn’t want to wait, I would expect to pay a premium to skip the line.

And with 7.5% inflation this last 12 months, anything less than 7.5% more than 2021 MSRP seems more than “fair” to me.

I look at “fair” as a simple math problem though.

Others seem to look at it as some sort of philosophical debate where MSRP equals some level of “justice.” It’s like they’re just looking for reasons to be upset because things aren’t “fair” in their eyes.

Buy the car at the market price or wait 6+ months and get a deal. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. “But I want a deal NOW!!!l” ?

 

[heisnuts]

I really think this is going to get worse before it gets better. Like others have pointed out, for those who are driving a lot of miles each week the cost of gas will really start to add up, especially if it goes a lot higher than it is currently. Even if you were charging at EA stations and paying for the charge you would be farther ahead than paying for gas. And for Ioniq 5 owners, Hyundai gives 2 years of free charging at EA stations. I cannot imagine the markup on those if gas prices keep going up.

Demand for EV's is already higher than supply. If there is a lot more demand in the near future that will only make the situation worse than it already is.

 

[stryker]

Yup.

I ordered, waited 6 months, got X plan and got way more for my trade than I thought it was worth.

And if I didn’t want to wait, I would expect to pay a premium to skip the line.

And with 7.5% inflation this last 12 months, anything less than 7.5% more than 2021 MSRP seems more than “fair” to me.

I look at “fair” as a simple math problem though.

Others seem to look at it as some sort of philosophical debate where MSRP equals some level of “justice.” It’s like they’re just looking for reasons to be upset because things aren’t “fair” in their eyes.

Buy the car at the market price or wait 6+ months and get a deal. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. “But I want a deal NOW!!!l” ?

What's more important to you quality of life or quantity of life?

 

[stryker]

I don't think we will see that way of doing business again for a long time, if ever.

I disagree now, with Corvette C8 prices were over sticker (not always) but there were no unspoken for cars anywhere which is pretty much still the case. With the Mach E they are all over the place in the north east. This is the dealers screwing the public, nothing more.

 

[Mach1E]

What's more important to you quality of life or quantity of life?

More philosophical questions? It doesn’t really matter which is more important. I only have control over one of those things.

It’s not a either/or type of question.

It does get you thinking, I’m just not sure why you asked.

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