The IDEAL Electric Vehicle World

[dml105]

As always, there is a lot of talk here and elsewhere about the comparisons between driving an ICE vehicle and driving an EV. The most common question I get asked is "what's the range?" While the correct answer is "greater than 99.9% of the trips I take," I usually answer with less snark:

"I get about 320 in the summer and about 175 in the winter. But you know what? I always leave the house on a full tank because I have a charging station at my house."
"Yeah, but what about when you take a trip that's longer than your range?"

This is where my current answer and my ideal answer differ. My current answer is that I have to stop at a DCFC station and wait for 30-40 minutes to charge up and continue my journey. That DCFC is usually at a Walmart or a shopping center - not exactly what I need when I'm on a long trip - but at least it's near the highway.

My ideal answer would be "well, I gotta eat and I gotta pee, and so do my wife and kids. So we pull into McDonalds, or Cracker Barrel or whatever, and my car eats at the same time."

While I love the idea of DCFC at every couple of exits along the interstate system, charging at 350kW, it will still be a long pause where you can't do much of anything else. I think Americans would find it more convenient to put chargers where people are going to stop anyway - the restaurants. A sit down restaurant where people will tend to stay for more than an hour could get away with less expensive 100 kW or even 50 kW charging stations. They could even put the charge right there on the bill. The Ohio Turnpike has EA stations at their service plazas. Bring that everywhere! Put a charger at every fast food joint along the highway in the rural areas.

People seem to point to the infrastructure as a gaping hole in EV adoption. If done right, it could actually create a advantage to using EVs.

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[Blue highway]

I like your answers... For road trips I think it would be really helpful if every rest area on the Interstate system had fast chargers. The Feds control the real estate, the have tons of money from the stimulus... but they move at a rather slow pace.

Around my home bubble of ~100 miles I am fine.

 

[PalsyWalsy]

Agree in concept, however the difficulty of doing it at restaurants is that they go under. So they could put in the cost there of installation, but if they fold, bankrupt, whatever, you would need to hope the new chain/owner takes over the same spot and activates them. If not, those become useless by most accounts, as who is going to charge near an empty building with nothing to do?

 

[RickMachE]

While SOME interstates have service plazas containing fuel, restrooms, restaurant(s), etc., many do not. Ohio Turnpike has these all-inclusive rest stops to which they added chargers, they didn't decide to co-locate chargers with restaurants.

I'd rather chargers are located on the highway, or immediately off the highway, with bathrooms and nothing more. And they need to be fast - 150 is a bare minimum.

If a private restaurant wants to have a charging station, that's great - for them. They should then pay for it themselves unless it's right near the entrance and clearly marked for public use - with a penalty for those that stay inside eating when the car is done (just like EA).

We're headed on a trip tomorrow. We rarely eat at restaurants while driving somewhere. We'll make sandwiches for lunch. Tomorrow we'll be on the road all day and into the evening, so we discussed whether we want to grab some food at our evening charge stop, took a look at what was there, and decided we would grab some fast food, plug in at the Walmart charger, hit the rest rooms, and then be off when the charging was done.

Ideally, there will be fast chargers ON the highway, with bathrooms and nothing more (unless it already exists), every 50 miles as they plan.

 

[RickMachE]

Agree in concept, however the difficulty of doing it at restaurants is that they go under. So they could put in the cost there of installation, but if they fold, bankrupt, whatever, you woul dneed to hope the new chain/owner takes over the same spot and activates them. If not, those become useless by most accounts, as who is going to charge near an empty building with nothing to do?

Very valid point.

On a trip last fall, we charged at multiple EA locations. One was in a Denny's parking lot next to a sleazy motel. If Denny's closed, I would be reluctant to stop there. We used the Denny's restrooms, I'm sure they're not delighted that people do.

Another was in a mall parking lot, outside Sears. Sears is closed, so you're in a far corner of the parking lot, not near any other stores, can't see the next entrance (on the other side of a parking structure).

Charging locations need to be put where these types of issues (failed restaurants / stores) don't impact the safety and functionality (restrooms) of the stops.

 

[2FlyMache]

While SOME interstates have service plazas containing fuel, restrooms, restaurant(s), etc., many do not. Ohio Turnpike has these all-inclusive rest stops to which they added chargers, they didn't decide to co-locate chargers with restaurants.

I'd rather chargers are located on the highway, or immediately off the highway, with bathrooms and nothing more. And they need to be fast - 150 is a bare minimum.

If a private restaurant wants to have a charging station, that's great - for them. They should then pay for it themselves unless it's right near the entrance and clearly marked for public use - with a penalty for those that stay inside eating when the car is done (just like EA).

We're headed on a trip tomorrow. We rarely eat at restaurants while driving somewhere. We'll make sandwiches for lunch. Tomorrow we'll be on the road all day and into the evening, so we discussed whether we want to grab some food at our evening charge stop, took a look at what was there, and decided we would grab some fast food, plug in at the Walmart charger, hit the rest rooms, and then be off when the charging was done.

Ideally, there will be fast chargers ON the highway, with bathrooms and nothing more (unless it already exists), every 50 miles as they plan.

I agree with the above. In most cases, you'll find a restaurant close by if that's something you want to do. Just be aware of getting charged an idle fee if you take too long

 

[dml105]

I'd rather chargers are located on the highway, or immediately off the highway, with bathrooms and nothing more. And they need to be fast - 150 is a bare minimum.

Porque no los dos?

putting slower ones at restaurants is viable and could also present a less expensive alternative to the user. If you’re in a hurry, grab the 350 kWh charger on the highway. If you’ve decided to take a true rest stop, take the less expensive one at an eatery.

as for restaurants going out of business, that’s a problem with gas stations too, but I don’t think that’s a serious enough concern to prevent places from building out charge stations. Particularly stable ones like McDonalds and Appleby’s and the like.

 

[RickMachE]

Porque no los dos?

putting slower ones at restaurants is viable and could also present a less expensive alternative to the user. If you’re in a hurry, grab the 350 kWh charger on the highway. If you’ve decided to take a true rest stop, take the less expensive one at an eatery.

as for restaurants going out of business, that’s a problem with gas stations too, but I don’t think that’s a serious enough concern to prevent places from building out charge stations. Particularly stable ones like McDonalds and Appleby’s and the like.

As long as they use private funds, and not public ones.

 

[AZBill]

Almost every road trip I have taken, I have been near restaurants while charging at EA. A few only have fast food options, but many have other options. We ate at a Texas Roadhouse in Flagstaff while charging and at a Cracker Barrel in Kingman while charging. On a recent trip to Tucson the chargers were at an outlet mall, we used the restroom and got something at Starbucks, then were on our way. That outlet mall did have a few fast food places.

For me, I have no desire to charge at a rest area, where there are essentially just some vending machines and dirty restrooms.

 

[dml105]

As long as they use private funds, and not public ones.

Fine by me.

I would say, if I had a choice between McDonalds and Wendy’s and one had a charger and the other didn’t, the charger would be a distinguished and more likely get my business. Private businesses should certainly recognize that, and encourage the EV visitor by building that amenity.

Hell, I recently went to one local ski resort over another because it had a charging station there.

 

[RickMachE]

Fine by me.

I would say, if I had a choice between McDonalds and Wendy’s and one had a charger and the other didn’t, the charger would be a distinguished and more likely get my business. Private businesses should certainly recognize that, and encourage the EV visitor by building that amenity.

Hell, I recently went to one local ski resort over another because it had a charging station there.

In one area we have visited, the fast charger was put into a Dunkin' Donuts parking lot. Another is at a McDonald's.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Mmmmmmm Cracker Barrel.

 

[RickMachE]

Mmmmmmm Cracker Barrel.

Thanks, but no.

 

[Rt1AWD]

"I get about 320 in the summer and about 175 in the winter. But you know what? I always leave the house on a full tank because I have a charging station at my house."

How about that advice that it is better to discharge the battery all the way to 10-20% before starting charging it.

 

[dml105]

How about that advice that it is better to discharge the battery all the way to 10-20% before starting charging it.

That is counter to Ford’s suggestion that you plug it in every night when it’s cold. I don’t know if that advice to run it down to 10-20% each time is still valid.

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