Tesla refuses $6.4M funding from California due to requirement of accepting payment via credit card...

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Elon knows what’s best for Elon.

Haha, maybe, but $44B for Twitter says you’re wrong.

Sponsored

 

[timbop]

Personally, if having a half dozen apps on my phone to charge my car at various locations means better reliability, I'm all for it.

THAT is the crux of the matter. As I and @Kamuelaflyer can tell you, often third party hosts of EVSE have their own half-baked apps that are buggy and unreliable. Take a look at the comments on plugshare for the L2 chargers at the Cape May side of the cape may-lewes ferry: it's a half-assed app that neither I nor many others can get to work. @Kamuelaflyer can tell you how horrible the app is for the HELCO DCFC chargers on his island.

While skimmers are definitely an issue, so are half baked apps. Redundancy is a good thing, and I am glad to see that it is mandated because otherwise operators will do what is best for them. In Tesla's case they will probably be allowed to put a credit card kiosk at the end of a row of chargers so they don't have to retrofit their supercharger design.

 

[LM_COGT]

$6M isn't a lot of money for sure, but the requirements were such that one card reading kiosk for the entire station was sufficient. Wasn't needed on every stall.

Seems like they could just grab a turnkey kiosk like Flash offers and load up the Tesla app on it to activate a stall. Feel like this would have been a 1 month project for a SW intern, and a couple hundred grand on the off-the-shelf kiosk.

~edit~ seems some earlier descriptions I read were incomplete, the grant here was decided that it needed every stall to have a separate CC reader. That is a lot more painful and definitely makes sense to skip the $6M.

 

[mateo]

Tesla can do what they want. I'm not passing judgment on their decision, but we aren't asking for a super fancy touch screen that breaks because of who knows what reason. This is a false dichotomy. You can support credit cards with very reliable technology.

Regardless... even with a fancy screen to enable credit cards, that doesn't mean you couldn't still have an app to accept payment that doesn't require touching said screen. So if the screen is broken, then people can still charge with the app. This is similar to the rare occasion (for me) where pulling into a gas station, I see "Cash only" taped over a broken reader at a specific pump.

 

[brancky3]

I'd be more afraid of credit card skimmers on chargers designed to steal your card info.

I use EVGo AutoCharge+ which is a true plug and charge and does not need a phone app to activate or use.

Once, I forgot my personal phone that had all the charge apps pre-installed (EA, Shell, Chargepoint, EVGo) but realized my EV automatically will charge at an EVGo without the need for my phone !

Saved me from having to use a credit card!

Exactly this for the skimmer worries. Using a card anywhere is starting to feel archaic... Forgetting your phone nowadays is comparable to forgetting your wallet 15 years ago.

Tesla can do what they want. I'm not passing judgment on their decision, but we aren't asking for a super fancy touch screen that breaks because of who knows what reason. This is a false dichotomy. You can support credit cards with very reliable technology.

Regardless... even with a fancy screen to enable credit cards, that doesn't mean you couldn't still have an app to accept payment that doesn't require touching said screen. So if the screen is broken, then people can still charge with the app. This is similar to the rare occasion (for me) where pulling into a gas station, I see "Cash only" taped over a broken reader at a specific pump.

?‍ a simple NFC tap reader would fix the problem, but I'm sure that's not allowed in some way or another. Whatever it is, I don't want to swipe a card.

 

[superdave80]

Which is worse, requiring an app to initiate and pay for a charge or pulling up and seeing touch screen on the charger showing a Windows OS error message?

Just have both options. I've managed to pump gas into my car for decades without an app. My bigger fear is that cell/internet will be down when I go to charge, and then what?

 

[superdave80]

Exactly this for the skimmer worries. Using a card anywhere is starting to feel archaic...

Yep, it's a good thing that the money in our apps is safe from being stolen.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy7yyy/my-cash-app-hacked-hackers-stealing-money

Oh, and I'm not legally responsible for fraudulent credit card purchases if my card ever was skimmed. For the money stolen from those apps? (using best Morgan Freeman voice): Good luck...

 

[4sallypat]

Exactly this for the skimmer worries. Using a card anywhere is starting to feel archaic... Forgetting your phone nowadays is comparable to forgetting your wallet 15 years ago.

Yup, agreed - felt very unnatural when I forgot my phone.

Luckily I have a backup phone - my work cell phone.

I do love EVGo Autocharge+ where I don't have to open a single app - just plug in and walk away.

Wish EA and Shell ReCharge offers that type of plug and charge.

 

[LM_COGT]

Yup, agreed - felt very unnatural when I forgot my phone.

Luckily I have a backup phone - my work cell phone.

I do love EVGo Autocharge+ where I don't have to open a single app - just plug in and walk away.

Wish EA and Shell ReCharge offers that type of plug and charge.

Ford and EA have plug-n-charge working through Ford's BlueOval network. The downside is that right now there's no way to combine that with the EA plus membership to get the discounted rates.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Elon knows best, right? ?‍??

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he does. At least when it comes for DCFC stations and how they operate.

 

[AhardFSU]

I'd be more afraid of credit card skimmers on chargers designed to steal your card info.

I use EVGo AutoCharge+ which is a true plug and charge and does not need a phone app to activate or use.

Once, I forgot my personal phone that had all the charge apps pre-installed (EA, Shell, Chargepoint, EVGo) but realized my EV automatically will charge at an EVGo without the need for my phone !

Saved me from having to use a credit card!

As long as the card reader has NFC for Apple Pay or Google Pay or Samsung Pay, you don’t have to swipe your card, therefore, no worry about card scanners.

But I don’t agree that Autocharge + on EvGo or Plug and Charge on EA, is the way to go. I’ve used both numerous times and it’s less hassle than pulling out your phone for an app or pulling out your credit card.

 

[AhardFSU]

Yup, agreed - felt very unnatural when I forgot my phone.

Luckily I have a backup phone - my work cell phone.

I do love EVGo Autocharge+ where I don't have to open a single app - just plug in and walk away.

Wish EA and Shell ReCharge offers that type of plug and charge.

EA does offer Plug and Charge. You need to toggle the Plug and Charge switch in your Ford Pass app. I’ve used Plug and Charge at EA numerous times.

 

[astrorob]

I use EVGo AutoCharge+ which is a true plug and charge and does not need a phone app to activate or use.

for some reason, despite entering the VIN of my 23 MME, EVGo won't offer me autocharge+. just more app bug fun.

i never had a problem with tesla's plug and charge. obviously that only works on teslas but in theory it could work with any CCS car that has a mac address. i think tesla can make it work, if they want to.

i agree that credit card readers, even NFC ones, are likely to break. since tesla does not need them for their own cars, seems likely that they'd sit there broken for a while if they did break. unless whatever regulation they are operating under requires the CC readers to have some % uptime to get the money. maybe it falls under the general uptime rule, i don't know.

idk if the "tesla kiosk" is a 1 month project for an intern. the current Tesla app is very account/user-specific. it doesn't use apple pay or any other form of payment like that. you have to manually enter your credit card info in their app/website to be able to supercharge. so it would be quite an architecture overhaul to let random people use one tesla account.

 

[machdady]

I used a Tesla supercharger this past weekend in NY. Aside from the cable length issue and 2 chargers not working with the Mach-E, the other issues was I didn’t have good cell service. Which is weird cause I have Verizon and was in Red Hook at a shopping mall - a place I would have thought I’d have enough reception.

The app only ecosystem won’t work without plug and charge universally accepted. Imagine remote places where you need charging but not universal cell (unless StarLink is free for the app to use lol).

The best solution IMO is NFC which can be easily installed at any charger without a complex screen that has maintenance issues. This would support those that can’t or won’t use an app. I can use Apple Pay at my coffee shop and it recognizes me to give me a free coffee every tenth time - my charger should as well.

This is going to be patchwork unless we create a universal data and payment platform for all cars and chargers to use. I don’t see that happening or the government creating it well any time soon.

 

[Deleted member 16048]

Please no. No more apps. I pulled up to a fast charger at my grocery store the other day. Scanned my credit card. Didn’t work. Directed me to the app. I promptly walked away. I don’t have time to spend downloading more apps, and creating accounts, for every damn merchant I use. Gas pumps solved this years ago. Chargers can too.

If they want to have an incentive program to use the app (like Starbucks) that’s fine. But please don’t require it. I wanted $3.00 worth of electricity. We aren’t getting married. You don’t need to send me push notifications.

Totally agree here. Thought I read somewhere that there was going to be a requirement to be plug and charge compatible, as well as interoperable like toll tags have become.

Yes the plug and charge would likely require some setup, but the workflow for it could be much more streamlined and easy. We will see what the market sets up for this.

Sponsored