Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says

ChasingCoral

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...c-cars-climate-group-says/ar-BB1bjw3U?ocid=se

Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says
Reuters 12 hrs ago
http://a.msn.com/08/en-us/BB1bjw3U?ocid=sf
LONDON — Plug-in hybrid cars emit far more CO2 than advertised, according to tests commissioned by European group Transport and Environment (T&E), which on Monday called on governments to end subsidies and tax breaks for such models.
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The tests were conducted by Emissions Analytics on three plug-in hybrid SUV models — BMW's X5, Volvo's XC60 and Mitsubishi Motor Corp's Outlander - and found that even under optimal conditions they emitted far more CO2 than advertised.

"Plug-in hybrids are fake electric cars, built for lab tests and tax breaks, not real driving," Julia Poliscanova, T&E's senior director for clean vehicles said in a statement. "Governments should stop subsidising these cars with billions in taxpayers' money."

In response to requests for comment, a Volvo spokesperson in an email said all Volvo cars are certified and fully comply with existing emissions legislation.
Mitsubishi spokeswoman Amanda Gibson said, also by email, that independent tests can produce unreliable or variable figures depending on conditions and "we naturally contest any findings where we have no oversight of the testing or methodology."

BMW did not immediately reply.

T&E's announcement came just days after proposed European Union rules were released laying out tight emissions limits for carmakers to hit for their activities to be classed as a sustainable investment.

Under those rules, hybrid vehicles would lose their "green" label from 2026 onward.

Plug-in hybrids are a halfway house between conventional combustion engines and electric vehicles, combining a smaller engine with an electric motor and battery.

These hybrids have frequently been referred to as a "gateway technology" designed to get consumers comfortable with electric vehicle (EV) technology, especially as nervousness about the driving range of fully-electric vehicles has been an obstacle to mass adoption.

It has also helped carmakers stretch returns on their investments in combustion engine technologies.

In the first three quarters of 2020, sales of plug-in hybrids accounted for close to half of all electric or partially-electric vehicles in the European Union, as a growing number of consumers took advantage of government subsidies or tax breaks to buy them.

But climate groups like T&E have been critical of plug-in hybrids as unlike fully-electric models they emit CO2 when relying on their fossil-fuel engine instead of the battery.

Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says originally appeared on Autoblog on Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:30:00 EST.
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kdryden99

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I actually agree with them, but they do have their place they do make it easier for some to transition to fully electric and we do have to acknowledge the fact that they give very good range
 
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ChasingCoral

ChasingCoral

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I think PHEVs still have their place and will for about 5 years, after that: begone!
 


timbop

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I think PHEVs still have their place and will for about 5 years, after that: begone!
If used properly PHEV have a longer life than that IMHO, but the problem is getting people to use them as EV first and ICE second.
 

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Depends on the range. If you get 50 miles of all electric range then the number of electric miles won't be all that different than what you'd see from an all electric. If you get 10 miles, then that's a different story.

The problem with plug-in hybrids that have a decent range is that these vehicles need two drive trains, and having two drive trains add costs. Given the dropping price of batteries their time is limited.
 

JellyBelly

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I think PHEVs still have their place and will for about 5 years, after that: begone!
Agree that PHEVs have their place ; when they disappear depends I think on rate of adoption of full BEVs. They stay longer if they can increase range but would it be worth the investment for car companies? Not sure .

It is also debatable if PHEVs have an edge over full ICE hybrids - unless PHEVs can drive significant range or more range than today say 50 miles/charge. But the age of full ICE hybrids may come to an end before PHEVs go away - as auto mfrs decide where to invest their resources.
 

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I actually agree with them, but they do have their place they do make it easier for some to transition to fully electric and we do have to acknowledge the fact that they give very good range
  1. When I bought my C-Max and my commute was 60 miles I went from filling up once a week to once a month
  2. More recently, when my commute distance went down, I've been averaging one fill-up every 14-15 months. Having subsidized or free charging at work helpeed
  3. In my previous job when I worked for an electric utility and they charged $0.03 per kw/h for the first 3 hours, all but 2 regular users drove PHEV plus one BMW i3 with a lawn mover motor, which technically counts as PHEV. One Fusion driver fell into the category of non-chargers
  4. In the current job where the charger is free to employees and contractors, there 10 regular users of the chargers. 8 of them were PHEV. One other C-Max driver lives 20 miles away and usually gets 17 all electric miles each way. Probably better than all those cavernous SUVs
  5. Even when not charged, PHEV act as hybrids and use a lot less gasoline than traditional cars
 

shutterbug

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The problem is that the majority don't ever bother to charge the battery, just drive it as an ICE with a discount.
Source please. I know of only one such person.
 

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  1. When I bought my C-Max and my commute was 60 miles I went from filling up once a week to once a month
  2. More recently, when my commute distance went down, I've been averaging one fill-up every 14-15 months. Having subsidized or free charging at work helpeed
  3. In my previous job when I worked for an electric utility and they charged $0.03 per kw/h for the first 3 hours, all but 2 regular users drove PHEV plus one BMW i3 with a lawn mover motor, which technically counts as PHEV. One Fusion driver fell into the category of non-chargers
  4. In the current job where the charger is free to employees and contractors, there 10 regular users of the chargers. 8 of them were PHEV. One other C-Max driver lives 20 miles away and usually gets 17 all electric miles each way. Probably better than all those cavernous SUVs
  5. Even when not charged, PHEV act as hybrids and use a lot less gasoline than traditional cars
Similar story. 20 mile 1 way commute downhill, 20 mile back home uphill. Used 0.1 gal per day to get home in my CMax Energi. Recharged at work on 110v outlet every day. My first tank of gas lasted almost 2000 miles. When I told people about that they were amazed because they never heard anything like that from commercials or from dealers. Sent several to dealers to test drive and buy, but not one dealer had an Energi vehicle that was charged!
 

shutterbug

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The article in the UK from a couple months ago.
Can't comment on other countries, but I am skeptical that all those Volts were sold because they are pretty or high performers or luxurious. I also doubt that most people paid extra for Ford's Energi just so they could pay extra and end up with identical looking Hybrid. Doesn't pass smell test :)
 

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Can't comment on other countries, but I am skeptical that all those Volts were sold because they are pretty or high performers or luxurious. I also doubt that most people paid extra for Ford's Energi just so they could pay extra and end up with identical looking Hybrid. Doesn't pass smell test :)
The European/UK incentives made the PHEVs cheaper than a regular ICE.
 

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If used properly PHEV have a longer life than that IMHO, but the problem is getting people to use them as EV first and ICE second.
Yep!

I convinced a friend to buy a Prius Prime to replace his Prius, during a period of time that I was thinking about buying a manufacturer buyback (lemon law) Ioniq PHEV. (That didn't happen BTW.)

Anyway, turns out he only wanted the PHEV because of a loophole in Arizona law that would allow him to keep his grandfathered HOV lane access. :(

But I carefully nudged periodically, and eventually he tried plugging it in. Now he won't go back. He's competitive. So now he's boasting about his MPGs compared to everyone else.
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