Charging Education: Drivers desperately need it

[HuntingPudel]

Yes, but they should still pay a lot more for that extra charging time.

Unless we can somehow force the charging companies to install chargers within range during cold weather, I am against this. I don’t road trip much, but I wouldn’t want to be penalized because the distance to the next charger requires me to have a stupidly high SoC. I also would prefer to not have to charge past 80% ever, but the reality is that sometimes it’s necessary due to the spacing of charge stations. ?‍?

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[Mirak]

Unless we can somehow force the charging companies to install chargers within range during cold weather, I am against this. I don’t road trip much, but I wouldn’t want to be penalized because the distance to the next charger requires me to have a stupidly high SoC. I also would prefer to not have to charge past 80% ever, but the reality is that sometimes it’s necessary due to the spacing of charge stations. ?‍?

I understand your point. Here in the midwest, chargers are few and far between. I've been in the same boat as you - sometimes needing to get up to 90% or so.

But that is still something that should cost extra if we expect these chargers to ever be financially viable. If someone is spending 2-3x as long tying up a charger as they ride the downslope of the charging curve, that isn't just a pain for people waiting in line - it is lost revenue for the charging company.

Even if they charged more for that extra 10%, it would still probably be cheaper than gas.

 

[eleven24]

My view is that the car should tell you what to do through intelligent user interface design. If you charge above 80%, a message should pop up that says "Charging to 80% complete, you may unplug". If you are navigating somewhere, it should tell you when to stop charging: "Charge level sufficient, unplug and proceed".

And Electrify America should charge you a double rate above 80% if all the stations are full (in addition to idle fees). That would educate customers real fast. If you are on a free charging plan it should just stop at 80% and charge idle fees.

Tesla implemented both of these things years ago to increase Supercharger throughput.

Having just moved from a Tesla to the MME, I can say that at first it was startling to see the "You have enough charge to reach your next destination" message pop up in the Tesla when the SOC was only 50-60%

Once you learn to trust in the projection, you then appreciate always being in the low end of the charge curve. Especially when using the reliable Supercharger network.

This is why Ford should display the projected SOC to next destination prominently while charging and while driving, as well as displaying the charge curve while charging. These two in car pieces of information would go a long way in educating EV drivers.

 

[HGxxx]

My view is that the car should tell you what to do through intelligent user interface design. If you charge above 80%, a message should pop up that says "Charging to 80% complete, you may unplug". If you are navigating somewhere, it should tell you when to stop charging: "Charge level sufficient, unplug and proceed".

And Electrify America should charge you a double rate above 80% if all the stations are full (in addition to idle fees). That would educate customers real fast. If you are on a free charging plan it should just stop at 80% and charge idle fees.

Tesla implemented both of these things years ago to increase Supercharger throughput.

Completely agree!! But I doubt EA is competent to do this stuff ?

 

[eleven24]

On a road trip one might need to charge past 80% in order to make the next charging stop with a safe buffer. I had to go to 92% on one occasion (temperature, uphill). So don’t just use 80% as a flat place where people need to stop charging. There may be a reason for it. ??

The problem is that most people charging to 100% don't need anywhere near 100% to get to their next destination. Sure, there are situations like the one you mentioned. I've had similar. However, when a charging station is full, I think it's reasonable to apply a surcharge to vehicles that are on the very slow end of the charging curve.

 

[eleven24]

I understand your point. Here in the midwest, chargers are few and far between. I've been in the same boat as you - sometimes needing to get up to 90% or so.

But that is still something that should cost extra if we expect these chargers to ever be financially viable. If someone is spending 2-3x as long tying up a charger as they ride the downslope of the charging curve, that isn't just a pain for people waiting in line - it is lost revenue for the charging company.

Even if they charged more for that extra 10%, it would still probably be cheaper than gas.

Here in PA, EA charges by the minute, not the kW. Across the middle of the state there are not many chargers to choose from, and those that are can be sketchy in terms of reliability (Hello, EA).

Perhaps a solution could be that if a vehicle SOC is above 80% the cost to charge shifts to a per minute basis. Those that truly need the range will continue charging, while those that don't can unplug.

 

[Deleted member 9461]

Had a long road trip this past weekend, and with it several DCFC stops. It was a nice day, so people were outside their cars chatting. Being I had to wait for slot to open up, I walked over and joined in.

First was a really nice woman who just got a new Chevy Bolt. Seeing that she was at 88%, I casually said "oh good, looks like you're almost done". She said "Yep, another 12% but I can't figure out why it's going so slow when I'm on a 350 charger". She had no idea her car had a maximum charge speed because, as her salesman told her, she can use any speed charger.

This is when the driver of a Mach-E walked over and said "hope you don't mind, but I heard you talking about slow charge speeds on the 350 charger. I'm getting the same thing - it started off great but now I'm down to around 30 kw."

He was at 84% SOC.

I then spent a few minutes explaining how each car has a specific max charging speed and that it wouldn't matter if they plugged into a 150kw or 350kw charger. Then explained the whole charging curve, and how to best manage it when on a road trip - as in stopping the charge when you have enough to get to your next destination. Especially when there are other cars waiting.

I was telling the driver of the Mach-E, who was probably somewhere in his 70's, that the best way to minimize charge times is to look at the estimated battery percentage on arrival at your next stop, and then unplug when you feel it's a safe buffer to continue. I told him that for me, I base it on how many options to charge there are on the route ahead & make sure I have enough charge to go to the second charger down route in the event there are issues with the first one. This is when I hopped in his car and showed both he and his wife how to add chargers, see percentages, and plan their route home.

Here's the kicker - his car was a demo car from the Ford dealership he owns. They were both super appreciative of my help, and jokingly asked if I could follow them home.

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

In this case, the woman in the new Chevy Bolt lived less than a mile away - yet she was charging to 100% with 3 cars waiting. When I told her that the max charge speed of her car was 50kw and a half mile away was a ChargePoint 62.5kw charger that she would probably never have a wait for and would still get the same charge speed, she was ecstatic. Said she always came to this one and waited.

All of the people I chatted with were extremely nice and personable people - they just had no idea on how EV charging worked.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

You man get the number one EV ambassador award!!!! How many thread are...(insert car/driver/forum) " I AM SO TIRED OF THE BOLT/ID4/LEAF/HYBRED PLUGGED INTO THE 350 AND I'M TRYING TO CHARGE MY (INSERT ELITIST EV) AND I NEED TO GET TO BLAH. I had a bolt, and the dealer didn't tell us anything, figure 350, charge faster, only knew you only get 80% due to previously owning a leaf. learned, only getting 50KW....so underway. get to EA charger, only unit open is a 350, plug in, walk dog guy pulls up in (X) ev....tries talking like a used car sales critter, you know you can only draw 50 KW>!>!, and the other 3 charging customers (RIVIAN/MACH E/ BWM) go straight fight club on the dude....

yes you get it, and spread the love, wished all pilots behave like this...

 

[Deleted member 9461]

There should be added charge for length of time above 80% or 90%, not just per kWh. That'd get people moving and also educate them about the charging curve.

how about the charger screen explaining it, since you got time spread a little PSA

 

[Deleted member 9461]

YESSSSSSSS! This right here! And not just for MME owners. Soooooo many people trying to charge to 100%. Get to 80 and get off the charger lol. If people did that, the charging would go SO MUCH SMOOTHER for all involved. And also, have the damn app ready before you go. Many times people are fiddling with the app for 10 min before they even charge!

Ok ok ok..... climbing down off my soapbox.... I got triggered by this post lol

we were on a road trip towing the MYPOD camper, to get to the next charger, we needed NOSHITY 100% due to weather and mountains, we were going to unplug at 80, then got to the level 2 to get there, "fortunately", all three other chargers remained open so we gambled and stayed to 100.
we were going from Bremerton WA, to Denver Colorado in the winter.

 

[Deleted member 9461]

If you are near chargers that have this issue of people constantly charging to 100%, perhaps some signs above the charger screen explaining the 80% charging rule would help things along?

Like the Blink chargers that popped up in like 2015-2017 with the monster screen, that by 2019-2020 died-ed-ed

 

[AZBill]

I personally do not understand why everyone mentions 80%, why is that the magic number? The real education should be charge to what you need to get to the next charger. I usually try to just charge for 20 minutes, if that gets me to the next charger. On a recent trip in my Rivian I was stuck at a sight with 4 chargers all running at less than 100kw, I left at 23%, which got me to the next charger, that gave me 200kw. I typically charge to only 50-60% on road trips to take advantage of the best charging speeds.

 

[superdave80]

Like the Blink chargers that popped up in like 2015-2017 with the monster screen, that by 2019-2020 died-ed-ed

I was thinking printed signs taped above the screens.

 

[Deleted member 9461]

I was thinking printed signs taped above the screens.

Clever---simple yet effective...

 

[DCC233]

I blame Electrify America and the poor state of public DCFC as a lot of these issues are derived from arriving at EA stations with only 4 chargers of which at least one is off line and then politely trying to play the charging shuffle so everyone can go on there merry way.

I agree that the masses could use better education on charging for their vehicle but a lot of these issues are mostly gripes derived from the lack of supply (i.e. DCFC) for those of us that need chargers as part of a road trip and getting frustrated at those that are charging to 100%, on a charger with greater capacity than their car can handle, DCFC but live locally but have free EA charging (looking at you Hyundai owners ).

For the most part I haven't come across an EV owner at a station that wasn't nice to speak with and for the most part even if poorly educated on EV charging are open to learning more and not being "the problem". Be nice, don't get frustrated for dealers/rental agencies poor training, and look at it as an opportunity to spread the EV love.

Also us Bolt owners just want to be part of the DCFC club even if GM handicapped our charging capabilities (I own a non DCFC Bolt so I'm even more restricted on where I can go "quickly").

EA has no interest in fixing EV charging "errors" as time is mostly money for them.

 

[Sir Barton]

Had a long road trip this past weekend, and with it several DCFC stops. It was a nice day, so people were outside their cars chatting. Being I had to wait for slot to open up, I walked over and joined in.

First was a really nice woman who just got a new Chevy Bolt. Seeing that she was at 88%, I casually said "oh good, looks like you're almost done". She said "Yep, another 12% but I can't figure out why it's going so slow when I'm on a 350 charger". She had no idea her car had a maximum charge speed because, as her salesman told her, she can use any speed charger.

This is when the driver of a Mach-E walked over and said "hope you don't mind, but I heard you talking about slow charge speeds on the 350 charger. I'm getting the same thing - it started off great but now I'm down to around 30 kw."

He was at 84% SOC.

I then spent a few minutes explaining how each car has a specific max charging speed and that it wouldn't matter if they plugged into a 150kw or 350kw charger. Then explained the whole charging curve, and how to best manage it when on a road trip - as in stopping the charge when you have enough to get to your next destination. Especially when there are other cars waiting.

I was telling the driver of the Mach-E, who was probably somewhere in his 70's, that the best way to minimize charge times is to look at the estimated battery percentage on arrival at your next stop, and then unplug when you feel it's a safe buffer to continue. I told him that for me, I base it on how many options to charge there are on the route ahead & make sure I have enough charge to go to the second charger down route in the event there are issues with the first one. This is when I hopped in his car and showed both he and his wife how to add chargers, see percentages, and plan their route home.

Here's the kicker - his car was a demo car from the Ford dealership he owns. They were both super appreciative of my help, and jokingly asked if I could follow them home.

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

In this case, the woman in the new Chevy Bolt lived less than a mile away - yet she was charging to 100% with 3 cars waiting. When I told her that the max charge speed of her car was 50kw and a half mile away was a ChargePoint 62.5kw charger that she would probably never have a wait for and would still get the same charge speed, she was ecstatic. Said she always came to this one and waited.

All of the people I chatted with were extremely nice and personable people - they just had no idea on how EV charging worked.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

You make many good points. I received very little up front info from our dealer. In fairness, EVs are so new I am not sure the reps at our smalltown dealership knew a whole lot when we bought our ME is '21. I have learned many of the issues you point our through trial and error on the road. I have also have no problem with confessing ingnorance to some issues when meeting more informed folks like you at charging stations along the way. All have been helpful and forthcoming with info. I now find myself passing that knowledge along to others, including a young man with a new Kia EV I met on the way to Atlanta last week. He was unaware of the 80 percent deal until I explained it to him. On the way back, a more informed ME owner at the EA in Forsyth filled me on the 350/150 deal. If I understand this correctly, I should go ahead and take the 150 when I have a choice because 350 will not benefit my vehicle's capacity anyway? Thanks for posting this..

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