Charging Education: Drivers desperately need it

[generaltso]

I did. She said her salesman told her all she needs to do is plug into a regular outlet every night and when she gets up in the morning she'll have a full charge.

A regular 20A outlet.

That was another topic of discussion that left her wanting to go back to the dealership and tell the salesman (her words) he had no idea what he was talking about.

It amazes me that so many people are still under the impression that car dealers know anything about the cars that they sell.

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[Billyk24]

Had a long road trip this past weekend, and with it several DCFC stops. It was a nice day, so people were outside their cars chatting. Being I had to wait for slot to open up, I walked over and joined in.

First was a really nice woman who just got a new Chevy Bolt. Seeing that she was at 88%, I casually said "oh good, looks like you're almost done". She said "Yep, another 12% but I can't figure out why it's going so slow when I'm on a 350 charger". She had no idea her car had a maximum charge speed because, as her salesman told her, she can use any speed charger.

This is when the driver of a Mach-E walked over and said "hope you don't mind, but I heard you talking about slow charge speeds on the 350 charger. I'm getting the same thing - it started off great but now I'm down to around 30 kw."

He was at 84% SOC.

I then spent a few minutes explaining how each car has a specific max charging speed and that it wouldn't matter if they plugged into a 150kw or 350kw charger. Then explained the whole charging curve, and how to best manage it when on a road trip - as in stopping the charge when you have enough to get to your next destination. Especially when there are other cars waiting.

I was telling the driver of the Mach-E, who was probably somewhere in his 70's, that the best way to minimize charge times is to look at the estimated battery percentage on arrival at your next stop, and then unplug when you feel it's a safe buffer to continue. I told him that for me, I base it on how many options to charge there are on the route ahead & make sure I have enough charge to go to the second charger down route in the event there are issues with the first one. This is when I hopped in his car and showed both he and his wife how to add chargers, see percentages, and plan their route home.

Here's the kicker - his car was a demo car from the Ford dealership he owns. They were both super appreciative of my help, and jokingly asked if I could follow them home.

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

In this case, the woman in the new Chevy Bolt lived less than a mile away - yet she was charging to 100% with 3 cars waiting. When I told her that the max charge speed of her car was 50kw and a half mile away was a ChargePoint 62.5kw charger that she would probably never have a wait for and would still get the same charge speed, she was ecstatic. Said she always came to this one and waited.

All of the people I chatted with were extremely nice and personable people - they just had no idea on how EV charging worked.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

Chevy Bolt owner lived 1.5 miles away and had to dcfc! Sad story.

 

[Deleted member 16048]

I had a simular interaction a week ago. A bolt owner came by a charger and wanted to plug in while they were at 80%... It was a group of 5 elderly ladies. After I finished my charge, I did my part on helping educate them on how to activate the charger but also suggested they actually use the range they have so that they can get the maximum speed of the chargers. (For Bolts the maximum they can charge at is 50kWh. So plugging into a 350kWh vs 150kWh makes no difference.)

I do my best to read the person to see if they are even going to be receptive of the help, or suggestions. They seemed to listen well though and appreciated the help.

I'm curious about what people have experienced on their Mach E when using EA or stations that have 350 units mixed with 150. Do people give you a fuss about plugging into a 350 even though the Mach E can really only spike 170ish for a bit then fall below 150? Kyle from out of spec complains about this stuff, but to me if I can go over 150 at all, I'm going to go to a higher charger to get the maximum I can in the shortest time possible. As owners we need to have patience and respect for all situations. (Honestly as humans we need to have it as well.)

 

[generaltso]

For Bolts the maximum they can charge at is 50kWh. So plugging into a 350kWh vs 150kWh makes no difference.

I don’t usually point it out, but since this is a thread about charging education, you’re talking about kW, not kWh.

 

[superdave80]

I did. She said her salesman told her all she needs to do is plug into a regular outlet every night and when she gets up in the morning she'll have a full charge.

Well, that COULD be true depending on how far she drives each day...

 

[RKinWA]

It would be helpful to have a list of "pro tips" for charging at DCFC stations... along the lines of "Please don't charge above 80% here"... but that is never going to happen. I expect this stuff to be learned through osmosis over the next decade or longer.

I will take a long time because DCFC will the the exception, not the rule. The less often things are done, the longer the learning curve.

Yeah not too much you could do short of popping up a warning screen at 80% with an additional cost for going further. That would definitely stop everyone except where you absolutely need to go to 100% from sitting on a charger ?

 

[thekat03]

It amazes me that so many people are still under the impression that car dealers know anything about the cars that they sell.

Car dealers should know a fair amount about the cars that they sell. I think that would improve sales and customer satisfaction. Sadly, no, many really have no idea.

 

[HuntingPudel]

On a road trip one might need to charge past 80% in order to make the next charging stop with a safe buffer. I had to go to 92% on one occasion (temperature, uphill). So don’t just use 80% as a flat place where people need to stop charging. There may be a reason for it. ??

 

[MachEMaster]

There should be added charge for length of time above 80% or 90%, not just per kWh. That'd get people moving and also educate them about the charging curve.

Up here in Canada, it is all "added" monetary charge. All DCFC is $ per minute. The slower you charge the more you pay. Terrible system!

 

[kltye]

On a road trip one might need to charge past 80% in order to make the next charging stop with a safe buffer. I had to go to 92% on one occasion (temperature, uphill). So don’t just use 80% as a flat place where people need to stop charging. There may be a reason for it. ??

I'm of the opinion that people should charge as much as they need. If you need to deliver/repair trombones across the country in winter, with an 8000 ft elevation, please charge to 100% (or 99%, really, since the last 1% is absolutely slow).

If your next charging stop requires only 50% total capacity, then charge to whatever margin you feel comfortable with. And no, 50% margin isn't the answer here?.

But math and numbers seem to be difficult things for a lot of people, so maybe the way to fix it is for the car's infotainment system to recommend a charge level based on the destination entered into navigation. Now, that recommendation needs to be very pessimistic, otherwise we're going to run into a lot of complaints...

 

[kodiakng]

I'm curious about what people have experienced on their Mach E when using EA or stations that have 350 units mixed with 150. Do people give you a fuss about plugging into a 350 even though the Mach E can really only spike 170ish for a bit then fall below 150? Kyle from out of spec complains about this stuff, but to me if I can go over 150 at all, I'm going to go to a higher charger to get the maximum I can in the shortest time possible. As owners we need to have patience and respect for all situations. (Honestly as humans we need to have it as well.)

for EA stations i think many folks are happy that any charger is working at all and don't complain too much about which one is in use.

 

[RickMachE]

Up here in Canada, it is all "added" monetary charge. All DCFC is $ per minute. The slower you charge the more you pay. Terrible system!

Well, it depends on the per minute rate as well as the charging speed.

Uninformed people in the states said that about EA's per minute rates (in about 10 states now). In reality, up to 80% charge, EA's per minute rates were (before the 8/17/23 change) about 50% cheaper than the per kWh rates due to how much energy was transferred per minute.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

My view is that the car should tell you what to do through intelligent user interface design. If you charge above 80%, a message should pop up that says "Charging to 80% complete, you may unplug". If you are navigating somewhere, it should tell you when to stop charging: "Charge level sufficient, unplug and proceed".

And Electrify America should charge you a double rate above 80% if all the stations are full (in addition to idle fees). That would educate customers real fast. If you are on a free charging plan it should just stop at 80% and charge idle fees.

Tesla implemented both of these things years ago to increase Supercharger throughput.

 

[Mirak]

Had a long road trip this past weekend, and with it several DCFC stops. It was a nice day, so people were outside their cars chatting. Being I had to wait for slot to open up, I walked over and joined in.

First was a really nice woman who just got a new Chevy Bolt. Seeing that she was at 88%, I casually said "oh good, looks like you're almost done". She said "Yep, another 12% but I can't figure out why it's going so slow when I'm on a 350 charger". She had no idea her car had a maximum charge speed because, as her salesman told her, she can use any speed charger.

This is when the driver of a Mach-E walked over and said "hope you don't mind, but I heard you talking about slow charge speeds on the 350 charger. I'm getting the same thing - it started off great but now I'm down to around 30 kw."

He was at 84% SOC.

I then spent a few minutes explaining how each car has a specific max charging speed and that it wouldn't matter if they plugged into a 150kw or 350kw charger. Then explained the whole charging curve, and how to best manage it when on a road trip - as in stopping the charge when you have enough to get to your next destination. Especially when there are other cars waiting.

I was telling the driver of the Mach-E, who was probably somewhere in his 70's, that the best way to minimize charge times is to look at the estimated battery percentage on arrival at your next stop, and then unplug when you feel it's a safe buffer to continue. I told him that for me, I base it on how many options to charge there are on the route ahead & make sure I have enough charge to go to the second charger down route in the event there are issues with the first one. This is when I hopped in his car and showed both he and his wife how to add chargers, see percentages, and plan their route home.

Here's the kicker - his car was a demo car from the Ford dealership he owns. They were both super appreciative of my help, and jokingly asked if I could follow them home.

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

In this case, the woman in the new Chevy Bolt lived less than a mile away - yet she was charging to 100% with 3 cars waiting. When I told her that the max charge speed of her car was 50kw and a half mile away was a ChargePoint 62.5kw charger that she would probably never have a wait for and would still get the same charge speed, she was ecstatic. Said she always came to this one and waited.

All of the people I chatted with were extremely nice and personable people - they just had no idea on how EV charging worked.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

The confusion is understandable. Maybe the real problem is that charging an EV is way more complex than pumping gas.

Since it doesn’t seem technologically possible to solve the charging curve anytime soon, maybe the stations need to be noobie-proofed by warning them with an epilepsy-inducing screen that their price is about to triple, and their speed is going to crater, if they charge past 80%.

 

[Mirak]

On a road trip one might need to charge past 80% in order to make the next charging stop with a safe buffer. I had to go to 92% on one occasion (temperature, uphill). So don’t just use 80% as a flat place where people need to stop charging. There may be a reason for it. ??

Yes, but they should still pay a lot more for that extra charging time.

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