Charging Education: Drivers desperately need it

[RickMachE]

Many fast chargers charge by minute, not kWh. It doesn’t take long to realize that cost per kWh doubles at 80% since charging speed drops to 40 kWh.

I don't know where you live, but this isn't true in my experience. EA charges by the kW except in states it cannot, and it switches them over as soon as they can.

I rarely charge at chargers owned by anyone else due to speed, but the few I've used are also by kW.

Sponsored

 

[circatee]

Had a long road trip this past weekend, and with it several DCFC stops. It was a nice day, so people were outside their cars chatting. Being I had to wait for slot to open up, I walked over and joined in.

First was a really nice woman who just got a new Chevy Bolt. Seeing that she was at 88%, I casually said "oh good, looks like you're almost done". She said "Yep, another 12% but I can't figure out why it's going so slow when I'm on a 350 charger". She had no idea her car had a maximum charge speed because, as her salesman told her, she can use any speed charger.

This is when the driver of a Mach-E walked over and said "hope you don't mind, but I heard you talking about slow charge speeds on the 350 charger. I'm getting the same thing - it started off great but now I'm down to around 30 kw."

He was at 84% SOC.

I then spent a few minutes explaining how each car has a specific max charging speed and that it wouldn't matter if they plugged into a 150kw or 350kw charger. Then explained the whole charging curve, and how to best manage it when on a road trip - as in stopping the charge when you have enough to get to your next destination. Especially when there are other cars waiting.

I was telling the driver of the Mach-E, who was probably somewhere in his 70's, that the best way to minimize charge times is to look at the estimated battery percentage on arrival at your next stop, and then unplug when you feel it's a safe buffer to continue. I told him that for me, I base it on how many options to charge there are on the route ahead & make sure I have enough charge to go to the second charger down route in the event there are issues with the first one. This is when I hopped in his car and showed both he and his wife how to add chargers, see percentages, and plan their route home.

Here's the kicker - his car was a demo car from the Ford dealership he owns. They were both super appreciative of my help, and jokingly asked if I could follow them home.

The point of this post is this - if you pull in to charge and get aggravated by someone sitting at 90% and still charging while people are waiting - it could simply be they believe they have to charge to 100%. Dealerships are not educating the consumer at all, and for that matter neither are manufacturers. It certainly wouldn't be hard to display info in the car as people are charging explaining things like max charge speed and the charging curve. Offering tips on screen on charging.

In this case, the woman in the new Chevy Bolt lived less than a mile away - yet she was charging to 100% with 3 cars waiting. When I told her that the max charge speed of her car was 50kw and a half mile away was a ChargePoint 62.5kw charger that she would probably never have a wait for and would still get the same charge speed, she was ecstatic. Said she always came to this one and waited.

All of the people I chatted with were extremely nice and personable people - they just had no idea on how EV charging worked.

Adding chargers to the infrastructure is great, but education of the public on EV charging is just as important.

Seriously, thanks for sharing. I am new to the EV market and thus trying to learn the pros and cons. I have to say, the charging side of things does take a moment to understand. It is not as simple as merely plug it in a charge (as the Dealer says).

I now have my car set to charge to 85% only, and set to do so between 00:00 and 05:00 (savings from my electrical company). However, sometimes I walk into the garage, and it is so warm in there, almost as if the car was on for a while, with the garage closed.

Alas, this is all a work on progress, learning it all...

 

[MrClean]

As long as the door is open on DC charge etiquette, can a Mach-e take advantage of any charger over 150kW? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. My EV6 on the other hand… I can’t tell you how many times I’ve pulled into a bank of open chargers to find a Mach-e tying up the 350kW one. Annoying af.

 

[JRSNoVa]

It’s not true to say that the MME does not benefit at a 350 KW station over a 150 KW station. There is a brief period of time where the charge curve allowed by the car is >160 KW on a 350 system. While this doesn’t significantly shorten a charge session, it is something. It’s more true to say that the benefit of a 350 KW charger over a 150 KW charger is negligible. ??

The benefit is entirely dependent on the starting state of charge (SOC). Yes, the MME can briefly draw 160 KW, but only when the SOC is below 10%. At 10%, it drops to 110 kW, then drops again to below 90 kW at around 35%. (see https://insideevs.com/news/550986/ford-mache-faster-charging-above80/)

Since very few drivers start a DCFC session at less than 10%, the "no benefit" language is going to be more appropriate way more often than the "negligible benefit" language.

 

[HuntingPudel]

The benefit is entirely dependent on the starting state of charge (SOC). Yes, the MME can briefly draw 160 KW, but only when the SOC is below 10%. At 10%, it drops to 110 kW, then drops again to below 90 kW at around 35%. (see https://insideevs.com/news/550986/ford-mache-faster-charging-above80/)

Since very few drivers start a DCFC session at less than 10%, the "no benefit" language is going to be more appropriate way more often than the "negligible benefit" language.

I have witnessed 164 KW rate at 18% after the charge curve update, so I stand by the negligible nomenclature. Is it worth it to use a 350 over a 150? Of course not unless that’s the only one open. ?‍?

 

[kodiakng]

I have witnessed 164 KW rate at 18% after the charge curve update, so I stand by the negligible nomenclature. Is it worth it to use a 350 over a 150? Of course not unless that’s the only one open. ?‍?

the fact we have to make these choices shows a complete failure in the non-tesla charge point operator (CPO) deployment strategy.

when i roll up to a non-supercharger charging station my main concern is "which one of these f***ing chargers actually works?".

my secondary concern is "which charger should i use to optimize the utilization of this screwed up system so my fellow EV compatriots are least inconvenienced and we all win despite being placed in this dilemma by an uncaring and uncompromising corporate entity?"

the fact i can't tell from my car while choosing which charger to initially park at just compounds the frustration when i get out and look at the screen or connect and fail to charge and then need to move or leave.

when you pull into a tesla supercharger all of the chargers are the same, 97+% of the time are working, and when you plug in it charges without issue or drama.

the non-supercharger CPOs are playing us all for fools by making this situation require all these "etiquette" rules; rules that are not going to be shared by the masses of new customers coming in the next few years.

 

[eleven24]

As long as the door is open on DC charge etiquette, can a Mach-e take advantage of any charger over 150kW? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. My EV6 on the other hand… I can’t tell you how many times I’ve pulled into a bank of open chargers to find a Mach-e tying up the 350kW one. Annoying af.

Technically, yes the Mach-E can slightly go above 150kW - but it would only last for a few minutes at best. You'll see negligible benefit to using a charger rated higher than 150kW.

Think of it this way - how would you feel if your charge were taking 2-3x longer because you were stuck at a 50kW charger while a Chevy Bolt was plugged into the 150kW charger. That's why I always choose the 150kW when I have a choice.

 

[smd95]

Hi All,

I'm a new MME owner and new to EVs. I'm stuck at home with the mobile charger on 120V waiting for my L2 charger. I'm very new to chargers and speeds I've read all these posts and still do NOT have a good concept of the best way to charge my MME. Is there a good MME specific tutorial anywhere? Is there another post that gives more direct suggestions?

I'm confused because I see people in this post saying stop at 80%, or keep going if you need to drive further blah blah, I get that, take advantage of the faster charging curve, but the figures for the curves are varied. Does Ford provide the most up to date curves based on the latest updates?

Also, where do you find the details of the DCFC stations? I have been going to one down the street that's a Chargepoint but there's not data on the charger itself, only when I'm charging does it give any data, and I have no idea if the values being shown are good or not, for instance, if I'm at 70% charged and accepting 50Kw, is that OK or not or is the charger not sufficient...etc.

The problem with uneducated drivers/owners is because there's not an easy source for accurate information to learn from...

Your help is appreciated.

I need an EV/Charging 101 for dummies class!

 

[DevSecOps]

Earlier today on Reddit I saw the below image. I can't believe how many people are hating on it calling the creator an entitled ass hole. I don't see it like that at all. This thread proves that a lot of people have no idea what charger they should use.

 

[AZBill]

The benefit is entirely dependent on the starting state of charge (SOC). Yes, the MME can briefly draw 160 KW, but only when the SOC is below 10%.

Not true, it will start out at 150kw, or slightly higher, even when just below 50%. Then in a few minutes it drops. Mine normally sits at around 120kw for a while then ramps down. The charging curve is not strictly based on SoC in the Mach E.

I have had my Mach E start at 160kw when starting at 33% and also had it start at 150kw when starting at 48%.

 

[JRSNoVa]

In that case, it looks like Ford updated the charge curve since InsideEVs posted their measurement.

Even so, how much time is anyone saving by getting 10 minutes or less at 160kW vs 150?

 

[Mach-Lee]

Hi All,

I'm a new MME owner and new to EVs. I'm stuck at home with the mobile charger on 120V waiting for my L2 charger. I'm very new to chargers and speeds I've read all these posts and still do NOT have a good concept of the best way to charge my MME. Is there a good MME specific tutorial anywhere? Is there another post that gives more direct suggestions?

I'm confused because I see people in this post saying stop at 80%, or keep going if you need to drive further blah blah, I get that, take advantage of the faster charging curve, but the figures for the curves are varied. Does Ford provide the most up to date curves based on the latest updates?

Also, where do you find the details of the DCFC stations? I have been going to one down the street that's a Chargepoint but there's not data on the charger itself, only when I'm charging does it give any data, and I have no idea if the values being shown are good or not, for instance, if I'm at 70% charged and accepting 50Kw, is that OK or not or is the charger not sufficient...etc.

The problem with uneducated drivers/owners is because there's not an easy source for accurate information to learn from...

Your help is appreciated.

I need an EV/Charging 101 for dummies class!

So to simply things as much as possible:

• Get a Level 2 (240V) charger at home
• Plug in every night or two and set it to stop at 90%
• When using a DC charger, unplug and leave at 80%
• Avoid going above 90% or below 10%
• Especially important to plug in at night when temps are below 40°F to keep battery warm
• Download and use the PlugShare app to find chargers. You can sort by speed, plug type, etc.
  
  
  

 

[HuntingPudel]

Hi All,

I'm a new MME owner and new to EVs. I'm stuck at home with the mobile charger on 120V waiting for my L2 charger. I'm very new to chargers and speeds I've read all these posts and still do NOT have a good concept of the best way to charge my MME. Is there a good MME specific tutorial anywhere? Is there another post that gives more direct suggestions?

I'm confused because I see people in this post saying stop at 80%, or keep going if you need to drive further blah blah, I get that, take advantage of the faster charging curve, but the figures for the curves are varied. Does Ford provide the most up to date curves based on the latest updates?

Also, where do you find the details of the DCFC stations? I have been going to one down the street that's a Chargepoint but there's not data on the charger itself, only when I'm charging does it give any data, and I have no idea if the values being shown are good or not, for instance, if I'm at 70% charged and accepting 50Kw, is that OK or not or is the charger not sufficient...etc.

The problem with uneducated drivers/owners is because there's not an easy source for accurate information to learn from...

Your help is appreciated.

I need an EV/Charging 101 for dummies class!

When home charging, the charge curve is a moot point. L2 chargers cannot output enough to bring that into consideration. The main reason to not charge to a high State of Charge (SoC) is that the battery will damage itself with time the higher it is charged. Daily charging should be limited to something 90% or less to make your battery last the longest. ??

That said, it’s time at the extremes (approaching zero or 100%) that is the big factor. If you are going on a long trip and need 100% for the first leg, do it. Likewise, if your battery ends up around 5% on a trip due to the distance from the last charger, it’s not the end of the world since you will be charging right away and not dwelling at that low SoC. ??

 

[DevSecOps]

In that case, it looks like Ford updated the charge curve since InsideEVs posted their measurement.

Even so, how much time is anyone saving by getting 10 minutes or less at 160kW vs 150?

I did a whole experiment surrounding this because it comes up all the time around here (you liked that post so I know you saw it previously). You save 25.2 seconds at a 350kW EA unit vs a 150kW EA unit. Here's the data to back it up: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/just-did-my-first-dcfc-at-ea-2-questions.21342/post-503433

It's rude and inconsiderate to take a 350 when there's 150's available. Sitting there for 30 minutes and only saving 25 seconds when someone else could be charging at a higher rate is just selfish.

Where I think you have it slightly wrong is on the 10% part. You can get the +150 rate above 10%, but where you got it right is on the negligible nonetheless part.

Sponsored