Charging Education: Drivers desperately need it

[eleven24]

You make many good points. I received very little up front info from our dealer. In fairness, EVs are so new I am not sure the reps at our smalltown dealership knew a whole lot when we bought our ME is '21. I have learned many of the issues you point our through trial and error on the road. I have also have no problem with confessing ingnorance to some issues when meeting more informed folks like you at charging stations along the way. All have been helpful and forthcoming with info. I now find myself passing that knowledge along to others, including a young man with a new Kia EV I met on the way to Atlanta last week. He was unaware of the 80 percent deal until I explained it to him. On the way back, a more informed ME owner at the EA in Forsyth filled me on the 350/150 deal. If I understand this correctly, I should go ahead and take the 150 when I have a choice because 350 will not benefit my vehicle's capacity anyway? Thanks for posting this..

Correct, assuming both chargers are working properly, you'll get the same max charge speed on the 150 or the 350. Given the choice, being in a Mach-E, always take the 150 charger and leave the 350 to vehicles that can take advantage of the speed.

Now if you've plugged in to a 150 and are at a low percentage of charge on your battery and seeing a much lower than expected charge rate - switch to the 350 and see if it's better. There could be a problem with the charger you're on.

By lower than expected, I'd raise a red flag if my current state of charge is 10-60% and the charge speed is below 50kw. In that case, I'd watch it for a bit to see if it ramps up but if not I'll either unplug and try again, or move to a different charger.

Sponsored

 

[JohnnyForensic]

I had a simular interaction a week ago. A bolt owner came by a charger and wanted to plug in while they were at 80%... It was a group of 5 elderly ladies. After I finished my charge, I did my part on helping educate them on how to activate the charger but also suggested they actually use the range they have so that they can get the maximum speed of the chargers. (For Bolts the maximum they can charge at is 50kWh. So plugging into a 350kWh vs 150kWh makes no difference.)

I do my best to read the person to see if they are even going to be receptive of the help, or suggestions. They seemed to listen well though and appreciated the help.

I'm curious about what people have experienced on their Mach E when using EA or stations that have 350 units mixed with 150. Do people give you a fuss about plugging into a 350 even though the Mach E can really only spike 170ish for a bit then fall below 150? Kyle from out of spec complains about this stuff, but to me if I can go over 150 at all, I'm going to go to a higher charger to get the maximum I can in the shortest time possible. As owners we need to have patience and respect for all situations. (Honestly as humans we need to have it as well.)

This is an interesting issue to me, as I often choose the 350, because all the EA stations I’ve encountered are 350s EXCEPT for the one that also has the single CHADEMO plug, so rather than block the one CHADEMO plug, I take one of the 350s even though I know it’s a higher capacity than I can benefit from. Am I weird in this logic, or do you all tend to have more 150s than just the one with CHADEMO in your areas?

 

[JRSNoVa]

I'm curious about what people have experienced on their Mach E when using EA or stations that have 350 units mixed with 150. Do people give you a fuss about plugging into a 350 even though the Mach E can really only spike 170ish for a bit then fall below 150? Kyle from out of spec complains about this stuff, but to me if I can go over 150 at all, I'm going to go to a higher charger to get the maximum I can in the shortest time possible. As owners we need to have patience and respect for all situations. (Honestly as humans we need to have it as well.)

Do you not see the contradiction in the last two sentences?

 

[kltye]

I believe a lot of the "150kW" chargers at EA are amp limited to about 300-350 amps, so depending on your arrival SoC, you might not see speeds much higher than 105kW-122kW (350 volts nominal x 300 amps). Once again, I think we can be flexible here - if there's very few people at a particular location, I don't think plugging in to a 350kW station (max ~500 amps or so) is a problem. I'm almost always sitting in my car at those stops, and if someone with a vehicle that can accept much higher current than my car pulls in, I always flag them down and let them know I'll move over. (Oftentimes most of people don't seem to care, but that's not the point)

It's a risk I'm willing to take for myself (since switching dispensers, etc. takes time even in the best conditions), but it's almost always well worth it especially if I'm not going to be there for much more than 10-15 minutes, where the charging curve doesn't get gimped badly yet.

 

[Logal727]

My sister (while in her 30s) used to think that the grades of gasoline were the year they were made so there's still a learning curve on that side too

 

[Sir Barton]

Correct, assuming both chargers are working properly, you'll get the same max charge speed on the 150 or the 350. Given the choice, being in a Mach-E, always take the 150 charger and leave the 350 to vehicles that can take advantage of the speed.

Now if you've plugged in to a 150 and are at a low percentage of charge on your battery and seeing a much lower than expected charge rate - switch to the 350 and see if it's better. There could be a problem with the charger you're on.

By lower than expected, I'd raise a red flag if my current state of charge is 10-60% and the charge speed is below 50kw. In that case, I'd watch it for a bit to see if it ramps up but if not I'll either unplug and try again, or move to a different charger.

Good info to have. Thanks much. I figured it is important to leave the 350s to the folks who can benefit from it, when possible. But I'm also learning how important it is to monitor the kw's during charging. It is interesting to see the whole concept of automotive maintenance change as it is doing. My older brother was an exemplary auto mechanic, then airplane and then jet mechanic, who loved nothing more than a day of greasy fingernails and scraped knuckles. Now, there is nothing under the hood, little if any fluids to monitor, and "auto mechanics" is all about software and tecnhology and, above all for me, clean energy. I got the full bells-and-whistles warranty with our Mach E, mainly because of the software. "You just bought yourself a Smart Phone on wheels," the finance guy said at the closing. Not exactly my baliwick, but I'm learning. Sorry to ramble. Thanks again.

 

[Logal727]

My view is that the car should tell you what to do through intelligent user interface design. If you charge above 80%, a message should pop up that says "Charging to 80% complete, you may unplug". If you are navigating somewhere, it should tell you when to stop charging: "Charge level sufficient, unplug and proceed".

And Electrify America should charge you a double rate above 80% if all the stations are full (in addition to idle fees). That would educate customers real fast. If you are on a free charging plan it should just stop at 80% and charge idle fees.

Tesla implemented both of these things years ago to increase Supercharger throughput.

FordPass used to have a message about why it slows down at 80% when you are DCFC

 

[Deleted member 16048]

This is an interesting issue to me, as I often choose the 350, because all the EA stations I’ve encountered are 350s EXCEPT for the one that also has the single CHADEMO plug, so rather than block the one CHADEMO plug, I take one of the 350s even though I know it’s a higher capacity than I can benefit from. Am I weird in this logic, or do you all tend to have more 150s than just the one with CHADEMO in your areas?

We tend to have 350kws with some 150kws around here. Or like in a lot of situations at EA there are downrated stations that are 50kw and just one 350kw available.

 

[Sir Barton]

Do you not see the contradiction in the last two sentences?

Now that I know the difference, I will leave the 350s open for EV owners who can most benefit. But if I am traveling, and all that is available is the 350, I am going to take it.

 

[Donna216]

Since we all have 47 apps installed for every charger we use, maybe the apps can prompt you at 75% SOC to hit "ok to charging slower to reach 100%. Check chargers within route to be sure 100% is necessary."

 

[superdave80]

This is an interesting issue to me, as I often choose the 350, because all the EA stations I’ve encountered are 350s EXCEPT for the one that also has the single CHADEMO plug, so rather than block the one CHADEMO plug, I take one of the 350s even though I know it’s a higher capacity than I can benefit from. Am I weird in this logic, or do you all tend to have more 150s than just the one with CHADEMO in your areas?

It's better to leave the CHADEMO, because that is their ONLY charging option. But to be honest, I never, ever actually think about what charger I'm going to use, because the few times I've used them they have been pretty empty, and I'm just trying to get ANY functioning charger...

 

[ChuckA]

If you are near chargers that have this issue of people constantly charging to 100%, perhaps some signs above the charger screen explaining the 80% charging rule would help things along?

Many fast chargers charge by minute, not kWh. It doesn’t take long to realize that cost per kWh doubles at 80% since charging speed drops to 40 kWh.

 

[thekat03]

Fast charging by the minute means chargepoint operators have little to no incentive to install or maintain high speed chargers, because they make more money keeping people plugged in longer at 45kW speeds than getting more cars through at 150-350 kW speeds.

 

[DonCuerv0]

Car dealers should know a fair amount about the cars that they sell. I think that would improve sales and customer satisfaction. Sadly, no, many really have no idea.

Many who work at dealerships aren't experts on the cars they're selling--but many salespeople will tell you whatever they think you need to hear to make the sale.

 

[HuntingPudel]

It’s not true to say that the MME does not benefit at a 350 KW station over a 150 KW station. There is a brief period of time where the charge curve allowed by the car is >160 KW on a 350 system. While this doesn’t significantly shorten a charge session, it is something. It’s more true to say that the benefit of a 350 KW charger over a 150 KW charger is negligible. ??

Sponsored