Tesla!! when it is going to stop??

[HONEST ABE]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

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[agdad]

I researched and drove several Tesla's before ordering a Mach e.
The reason I didn't go with Tesla is because they all had the same boring look to me and the Texas summer heat baked me thru the glass top on the Tesla test drives
The positive of the Tesla was by far the availability of charging locations which is leaps and bounds better than my mach e which gives me range anxiety on any trip I take out of town.

 

[stealthytolkien]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

Well at least there’ll be a functioning supercharger when you need one with a Tesla

Anyway, you’re absolutely correct about the range over estimates by Tesla as a whole.

Do note, however, that the “inflation” occurs mainly between above 60% SoC and it gets fairly accurate below it because they won’t risk drivers getting stranded on the road. It doesn’t excuse the false advertising narrative but just saying what they do.

In passing I’ll also say that I did three cross country (2000 miles plus) drives on a 220 mile EPA rated Model 3. It was in one word, flawless. I do not DARE do such a thing with a Mach E. That’s all

 

[Auto Motive]

I just traded my 2023 Tesla model Y long range for Mach-E GT last month after owning the vehicle for 8 months putting 11k mile on it during that period
I was planning to write an extensive thread about my transition from tesla to Mach-e and the pros and cons of each. unfortunately after spending couple of hours on it, I did refresh the page and lost it all.
Anyway I just want to mention one of the biggest factor that made me trade the model Y, and how most reviewer online ignore that fact when comparing EVs
My biggest beef with Tesla is their continues lying about range and consumption. I am not going into the range they display on their screen because it is a joke and actually there is an active lawsuit against them due to that. My problem is how did the EPA rate the model Y long range with 19 in wheels at 330?? anyone who owned the vehicle or drove it for extended time will know that number is fictional no matter the conditions. Unlike most other EVs including Mach-E where the advertised range is attenable. I am from WV where it is kind of hilly so I definitely don't expect full range but at the same time not 210-235 which is around 65% of the advertised range. I drive like most people on interstate and try to keep my speed under 80 without crazy acceleration or deacceleration. Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla. The problem here we are talking about 2% real world range difference vs. 18% advertised range by EPA. I watched numerous videos and reviews for other EVs and the advertised range is very attenable or close enough to the EPA rating. Tesla is the only outlier when it comes to that, and it is mind boggling how people and especially reviewers don't call them out enough about it. To me the advertised range (330) was the deal breaker for to go with the model Y vs other EVs.
The other lie with Tesla numbers is consumption. So of course Tesla opt it out to use different units to measure their consumption unlike any other EV. They use watt/Mile vs Mile/KWH. just imagine for an ICE vehicle, a company decided to measure it is consumption in Liter/mile !!. I believe they did that intentionally to make it harder for an average consumer to compare it to other EV or even figure out the real energy consumption, and guess why? because it is fake and inaccurate. I used to average 300 watt/mile which translate to 3.33 mile/KWH (great figure for EV huh!!), but of course it is wrong. It is more like 3 mile/KWH (10% off). While the Mach-E the trip calculator (in my case) will display 2.5 mile/KWH but the actual one is closer to 2.6 mile/KWH.
I just don't understand how they can get away with these false advertising and falsified numbers. EPA needs to open an extensive investigation about the variation in ranges for tesla and other EVs where it was done by same agency and under similar conditions I assume!! but I doubt it because I am pretty sure it was not a mistake and it was done intentionally by the EPA
The listed MPGE for Model-Y is 117 mpge hwy vs 77 mpge for the Mach-E, which represent 50% advantage for the model-Y over the mach-E. According to my recent consumption for both vehicles under the same conditions I get around 3 mile/kwh for the model y vs 2.5 mile/kwh for the mach-E which is only 20% advantage for the model-Y. How come a same testing agency can have this huge margin of error (more the double)
Range and efficiency probably are the most important factors in picking an EV for most people and having an accurate numbers is so crucial for most consumer

We have a 2021 GTPE and its now mine. We just took a 105 mile round trip with our 2023 Model Y AWD long range with 20 rims. 11% charge at 47 deg 322 miles. 20 miles 45 to 50 mph fan set a 1. Then went 85 miles at 65 mph cruise control set. Got 266kw/mile.
My wife drives very conservative no fast take offs and has been fine with the miles get. I see a lot of complaints with people driving 80mph which is thw worst efficiency possible. The GTPE is a blast. Goodluck.

 

[heisnuts]

I agree with you about the incorrect range estimates, but to me that really doesn’t matter. My M3P gets over 200 miles of range, and I very rarely do more than that in one day. Even if I come home with 10% left, it is charged back up by morning and I have yet to have one charging fault in 9,000 miles.

Then there is the supercharger network. We have taken 3 extended road trips now and never even came close to running out of range, never found a broken charger at any of the stations, had plenty of locations to pick from along our route, and always had charge rates over 150kWH at each location. The longest charging time was at a “slower” V2 150kWH charger and that took 40 minutes to go from 10% to 95%. The only reason I let it go that long was we were eating dinner at a restaurant at the same location and it took us that long to finish dinner.

And then that brings me to the advantages that everything just works. From auto preconditioning the car before going to and from work, to drive modes that stay where you put them, to the main screen that is instant in response, to the performance (which is 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds) everything just works. When I think about all of that and then realize this car cost me $44K after the tax credit, the whole lying about the range really doesn’t get me upset like it does you.

 

[HONEST ABE]

I researched and drove several Tesla's before ordering a Mach e.
The reason I didn't go with Tesla is because they all had the same boring look to me and the Texas summer heat baked me thru the glass top on the Tesla test drives
The positive of the Tesla was by far the availability of charging locations which is leaps and bounds better than my mach e which gives me range anxiety on any trip I take out of town.

tesla has some advantage and by no mean I am saying it is a complete garbage. When it comes to charging infrastructure no one come close to tesla. If someone going to charge on the road a lot then tesla is the way to go. but other than that I will take the mach-e every day over it

 

[HONEST ABE]

Well at least there’ll be a functioning supercharger when you need one with a Tesla

Anyway, you’re absolutely correct about the range over estimates by Tesla as a whole.

Do note, however, that the “inflation” occurs mainly between above 60% SoC and it gets fairly accurate below it because they won’t risk drivers getting stranded on the road. It doesn’t excuse the false advertising narrative but just saying what they do.

In passing I’ll also say that I did three cross country (2000 miles plus) drives on a 220 mile EPA rated Model 3. It was in one word, flawless. I do not DARE do such a thing with a Mach E. That’s all

actually I believe there is a huge difference in range between sedan tesla (S and 3) and crossover (Y and X). Even though model 3 is rated at 333 mile range only 3 miles over model Y, But multiple people who drove both confirmed for me a huge drop in range when they switched from the 3 to Y (at least 10%). Also I have a relative with an old model S with advertised range of 289 and she definitely gets more range out it than my model Y with 330 range. The problem with range is related more to Model Y which is their most selling vehicle !!

 

[HONEST ABE]

I agree with you about the incorrect range estimates, but to me that really doesn’t matter. My M3P gets over 200 miles of range, and I very rarely do more than that in one day. Even if I come home with 10% left, it is charged back up by morning and I have yet to have one charging fault in 9,000 miles.

Then there is the supercharger network. We have taken 3 extended road trips now and never even came close to running out of range, never found a broken charger at any of the stations, had plenty of locations to pick from along our route, and always had charge rates over 150kWH at each location. The longest charging time was at a “slower” V2 150kWH charger and that took 40 minutes to go from 10% to 95%. The only reason I let it go that long was we were eating dinner at a restaurant at the same location and it took us that long to finish dinner.

And then that brings me to the advantages that everything just works. From auto preconditioning the car before going to and from work, to drive modes that stay where you put them, to the main screen that is instant in response, to the performance (which is 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds) everything just works. When I think about all of that and then realize this car cost me $44K after the tax credit, the whole lying about the range really doesn’t get me upset like it does you.

I agree with everything you mentioned and as I replied to another comment here, I believe model 3 has much better range than model Y contrary to what tesla claim. To me personally I only charge at home so charging availability and speed is not a huge factor. Our family car is ICE (Hyundai Palisade) and it is our first choice for road trip. Much more space and more comfortable than our EV and I still don't like how we have to plan in advance where and when to stop for charging. When you have young kids most of the time you don't have the luxury of picking the stop time

 

[RedStallion]

As far as I know EPA doesn't do the testing, they define the protocols and manufacturers do the testing and reporting the numbers.
The EPA two-cycle test is quite unrealistic, so every EV's window-sticker range is the product of an adjustment factor, default is reduction by 30%. However, the EPA allows automakers the option to run three additional drive cycles and use those results to earn a more favorable adjustment factor. Currently, only Tesla and Audi employ this strategy for their EVs.
https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/

There was also an article in Reuters, claiming that Tesla created a team to suppress driving range complaints: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

 

[Billyk24]

Well at least there’ll be a functioning supercharger when you need one with a Tesla

Anyway, you’re absolutely correct about the range over estimates by Tesla as a whole.

Do note, however, that the “inflation” occurs mainly between above 60% SoC and it gets fairly accurate below it because they won’t risk drivers getting stranded on the road. It doesn’t excuse the false advertising narrative but just saying what they do.

In passing I’ll also say that I did three cross country (2000 miles plus) drives on a 220 mile EPA rated Model 3. It was in one word, flawless. I do not DARE do such a thing with a Mach E. That’s all

 

[Billyk24]

One of the car magazines did an EV range test with different vehicles. Tesla actially called them out on their published values by stating " you did noy include the miles left after the dash stated zero miles left in the battery".

 

[MellowJohnny]

I also find when I ask most Tesla drivers what their range is like they either don't know and quote what the GOM tells them, or they do know, and kinds brush it off like they don't want to admit they've been duped.

A friend of mine owns a M3 and took a day trip to Buffalo (in the winter) and I asked how it went - he said it was fine but needed to charge in Buffalo before returning to Toronto. That seemed really odd to me if indeed he had the range he claimed.

 

[HONEST ABE]

As far as I know EPA doesn't do the testing, they define the protocols and manufacturers do the testing and reporting the numbers.
The EPA two-cycle test is quite unrealistic, so every EV's window-sticker range is the product of an adjustment factor, default is reduction by 30%. However, the EPA allows automakers the option to run three additional drive cycles and use those results to earn a more favorable adjustment factor. Currently, only Tesla and Audi employ this strategy for their EVs.
https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/

There was also an article in Reuters, claiming that Tesla created a team to suppress driving range complaints: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

thanks for the valuable addition. it makes much more sense (even though it is wrong) that these ranges are provided by the manufacturer and not by the EPA. But in my opinion such an important information should be done by an independent third party not to leave it to the manufacturer

 

[HONEST ABE]

I also find when I ask most Tesla drivers what their range is like they either don't know and quote what the GOM tells them, or they do know, and kinds brush it off like they don't want to admit they've been duped.

A friend of mine owns a M3 and took a day trip to Buffalo (in the winter) and I asked how it went - he said it was fine but needed to charge in Buffalo before returning to Toronto. That seemed really odd to me if indeed he had the range he claimed.

you 100% right. Most tesla Owner are blindly in love with their tesla and will not admit most of the shortcoming with vehicle. Most youtube reviewer are tesla owner and that is why they don't mention the real world range compared to other EV. I was part of some tesla Facebook groups and believe me it feels like a cult mentality and don't you dare question anything about tesla

 

[RedStallion]

I was part of some tesla Facebook groups and believe me it feels like a cult mentality and don't you dare question anything about tesla

Yeah, not wanting to join the Tesla cult was one of the reasons I never considered buying any of their cars. And also the fact Elon so often offended my scientific training with his fantasies ?

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