For All You Tesla Haters - Enjoy!

[KevinS]

Right now ICE is more affordable for the condo and apartment livers at these newer DCFC rates.

Yes, if I didn't have the capability to charge at home, I would not own an EV.

I did my homework and was able to see I had a viable path to ownership as an early adopter. There are many who only saw a tax credit. Their chickens are now coming home to roost with the "unanticipated" early adopter issues of resale values in the toilet and an unreliable and underdeveloped charging infrastructure in the US.

Funny how with all the hubbub this week about the weather and EVs, Norway has such a large EV adoption rate.

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[Ghost Ryder]

Moral of the story, don't buy an EV if you can't charge at home.

 

[TheSteelRider]

I finally had a chance to watch this video. It reminded me of a Saturday Night Live skit from the 1970's. So, Kyle's investigation basically boils down to if you own an EV in a high-density urban area like Chicago and don't have access to L2 home charging you are competing for charger availability from Uber/Lyft drivers who rent EVs to earn a living. You can't drive far enough in the urban environment to let motor waste heat warm the battery above freezing, so as to let the car begin a charging event. Yet the Tesla story was also that people were waiting in line to get charger access, which with wind chill would reduce battery temperatures during the wait times (Kyle left that part out) for a charger. Kyle found out the news story wasn't anti-EV fake news; it was real.

So, when I look at this from an ICEV perspective it is really just comical. We have a perfectly good solution for personal transportation that has been refined and tuned over 100 years and works for everyone regardless of demographic or socioeconomic status, but we've now decided as a society to trash that and start over with an inferior solution. And all the OEMs are losing their asses, except one.

That is one point of view if you believe that BEVs in their development cycle today are in the same development cycle as ICE is today. But that isn't realistic.

In my lifetime, I remember having to go out to the car and repeatedly pump the gas pedal to get it to start, but pump it too much and it floods and you have to wait it out. Then along came fuel injection and digital timing and it solved the problem

My first car did not have airbags or ABS, now every car has both.

It is entirely possible (though maybe unlikely who can predict the future) that BEVs will eventually outclass ICE In all specs.

Your point is, BEV are not for everyone, especially right now, and that is true. What I don't understand though is the vitriol. For example, I don't own a diesel vehicle, I think they are unnecessarily loud, obnoxious, and smelly. That said, I don't really care if anyone chooses that kind of vehicle, and I appreciate their needs and wants are different. My dad has an F-250.diesel and I've borrowed it a few times for some large hauls. But, I've never gotten into a diesel forum and continually railed against buyers and manufacturers and railed against them.

Nobody forced me to buy a BEV. I live in a state that has no mandates, and am surrounded by F-150s. Yet in our suburban, multi vehicle household our BEV is a perfect fit for us, and we all fight over who gets to drive it each day. Why is that bad?

 

[DYohn]

Here's Why Norway Hasn't Had Trouble With Winter EV Charging (insideevs.com)

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Here's Why Norway Hasn't Had Trouble With Winter EV Charging (insideevs.com)

Summary:
People in Norway preheat their cars and 90% can charge at home.

 

[TheSteelRider]

Summary:
People in Norway preheat their cars and 90% can charge at home.

Sounds like the mantra a lot of level-headed people are saying, right now at today's technology BEVs are really only for you if you can charge at home. Not really end-of-the-world kind of stuff.

 

[Glen Boise]

That is one point of view if you believe that BEVs in their development cycle today are in the same development cycle as ICE is today. But that isn't realistic.

In my lifetime, I remember having to go out to the car and repeatedly pump the gas pedal to get it to start, but pump it too much and it floods and you have to wait it out. Then along came fuel injection and digital timing and it solved the problem

My first car did not have airbags or ABS, now every car has both.

It is entirely possible (though maybe unlikely who can predict the future) that BEVs will eventually outclass ICE In all specs.

Your point is, BEV are not for everyone, especially right now, and that is true. What I don't understand though is the vitriol. For example, I don't own a diesel vehicle, I think they are unnecessarily loud, obnoxious, and smelly. That said, I don't really care if anyone chooses that kind of vehicle, and I appreciate their needs and wants are different. My dad has an F-250.diesel and I've borrowed it a few times for some large hauls. But, I've never gotten into a diesel forum and continually railed against buyers and manufacturers and railed against them.

Nobody forced me to buy a BEV. I live in a state that has no mandates, and am surrounded by F-150s. Yet in our suburban, multi vehicle household our BEV is a perfect fit for us, and we all fight over who gets to drive it each day. Why is that bad?

This is correct. I describe our current state as "BEV's are in their second generation". The first generation of Early Adopters struggled with low mileage cars and no supporting infrastructure. They did so because they saw BEV's as a "hill to climb because it was there". In the second generation there are cars that meet some people's needs at prices that some people can afford and much of the needed infrastructure is there.
Do things need to get better? Yes, we need better this, more affordable that, and more reliable that. We see announced constantly research improving things and sometimes they even appear in the real world. We saw the same pattern in the development of every new technology like trains, planes, automobiles, computers and cell phones.
So let me close with a question: How energy efficient are BEV's versus ICEV's? It is my impression for others comments that BEV's are typically 80% energy efficient. ICEV's exploding gasoline are typically 40% efficient. In other words, when I fill my car with electrons or gasoline, how much is used to operate the car? How much is dumped as waste heat, as we see with gas cars with their radiators and exhaust pipes?

 

[DYohn]

In my opinion and for my usage, and with today's public infrastructure, charging at home is the only way to use an EV. I tell anyone who asks me this - the public charging system is not ready for mass adoption, not even Tesla's. If you can't charge at home don't do it.

The other point of the Norway article was education. Users there become educated before they buy, they do not expect the EV experience to be the same as the ICE experience, which most Americans seem to assume will be the case. People who do assume this are more likely to try stupid things and become dissatisfied and complain about how bad their vehicles are when the truth is simply that they were wrong.

 

[TheSteelRider]

You know, people have forgotten how just 30 years ago there were still carbureted ICE vehicles on the roads all over in America, and those darn things had many issues in the winter.

 

[Glen Boise]

You know, people have forgotten how just 30 years ago there were still carbureted ICE vehicles on the roads all over in America, and those darn things had many issues in the winter.

Isn't this still a problem today for ICEVs? It is so normal that no one thinks to report on all those ICEVs needing a jump. Is it not true that in routinely colder climates that many ICEVs will have block heaters and oil heaters, especially for diesels?

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Transport Evolved has a detailed take on what happened in Chicago. One note of interest is those were all slowerer V2 chargers to begin with.



Here's a question: cost aside, is there an engineering reason why you could not set up a bank of DCFCs sheltered from both the blazing sun and bitter cold? Even a space that could be kept 10 to 20 degrees warmer or colder than the outside air might have an impact on EVSE performance. Just a thought.

 

[RickMachE]

Here's a question: cost aside, is there an engineering reason why you could not set up a bank of DCFCs sheltered from both the blazing sun and bitter cold? Even a space that could be kept 10 to 20 degrees warmer or colder than the outside air might have an impact on EVSE performance. Just a thought.

Many places have DCFCs in parking garages...

 

[areacode413]

My sister-in-law from Oregon (while driving down to visit us in California), texted us to ask some questions about how to pump gas. We had a good laugh about that.

My mother in law has not pumped gas in the over 50 years she has been married.

 

[areacode413]

Isn't this still a problem today for ICEVs? It is so normal that no one thinks to report on all those ICEVs needing a jump. Is it not true that in routinely colder climates that many ICEVs will have block heaters and oil heaters, especially for diesels?

YouTube has never recommended a Video to me about the concerns of cold weather effects for ICE vehicles so obviously it’s not a problem. Some people do their research on about EVs on YouTube. The YouTube algorithms reinforce our confirmation bias once we click on videos about range and cold weather characteristics. Since people pander to this fact, you can find videos about the Earth is really flat, you been lied to, and people can convince themselves it is true by consuming content on YouTube.

 

[MacherAWD]

Transport Evolved has a detailed take on what happened in Chicago. One note of interest is those were all slowerer V2 chargers to begin with.



Here's a question: cost aside, is there an engineering reason why you could not set up a bank of DCFCs sheltered from both the blazing sun and bitter cold? Even a space that could be kept 10 to 20 degrees warmer or colder than the outside air might have an impact on EVSE performance. Just a thought.

Solar canopies covering the charging and parking lots in general would be nice.

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