For All You Tesla Haters - Enjoy!

[Guss-E 2021]

Solar canopies covering the charging and parking lots in general would be nice.

Especially in warmer regions.

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[Guss-E 2021]

Many places have DCFCs in parking garages...

I like the idea though I understand parking garages are not always conveniently located along travel routes.

 

[RickMachE]

I like the idea though I understand parking garages are not always conveniently located along travel routes.

The point was you asked if there was an engineering reason why a DCFC can't be sheltered. The answer is no, and the proof is that DCFCs are installed in parking garages.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

The point was you asked if there was an engineering reason why a DCFC can't be sheltered. The answer is no, and the proof is that DCFCs are installed in parking garages.

Even so, upon further thought, It would be more cost prohibited to build an enclosed DCFC stop along the side of the highway than to install a traditional set of outside chargers.

 

[RickMachE]

Even so, upon further thought, It would be more cost prohibited to build an enclosed DCFC stop along the side of the highway than to install a traditional set of outside chargers.

Pilot / GM are installing chargers. Been to 3 locations. 2 had roof like a gas station but smaller, trash cans, squeegees. One had nothing, over by the dumpster. Saw a picture someone posted of another one, it was installed with a large awning, and setup like gas pumps instead of parking spaces.

 

[Eric_C_Boston]

Pilot / GM are installing chargers. Been to 3 locations. 2 had roof like a gas station but smaller, trash cans, squeegees. One had nothing, over by the dumpster. Saw a picture someone posted of another one, it was installed with a large awning, and setup like gas pumps instead of parking spaces.

I was at an EA station near Ottawa that had a simple awning over the chargers and even that was better than the typical in the open locations. I just happened to charge there during a rain storm and it helped keep me dry. Here is a picture of the location. This seems a simple thing to do.

 

[nvabill]

You know, people have forgotten how just 30 years ago there were still carbureted ICE vehicles on the roads all over in America, and those darn things had many issues in the winter.

Yes, there have always been problems with vehicles in cold weather especially when they were not properly maintained and also have some age on them. But, with that said it paled in comparison with the bitching today about new or nearly new EV's which should not be having these problems with cold this early in their life cycle. IMO

 

[nvabill]

Isn't this still a problem today for ICEVs? It is so normal that no one thinks to report on all those ICEVs needing a jump. Is it not true that in routinely colder climates that many ICEVs will have block heaters and oil heaters, especially for diesels?

While there have always been procedures to operate an ICE vehicle in extremely cold climates I would not see this as mass problems, just watch an episode of ICE Road Truckers in Alaska. But, with that said I have never seen the level of complaints for ICE vehicles just operating in a mild winter climate as I have about folks complaining about the range and operation of their EV's.

 

[TheSteelRider]

Yup, so a 2-minute video about a poorly maintained Hyundai from 30 years ago justifies the Great Chicago Polar Vortex EV Fiasco of 2024. LOL.

No. The point is, technology improves over time. Nowhere in my post did I claim the situation wasn't bad, or shouldn't be improved. This was a great wakeup call to the BEV industry, and hopefully they take things more seriously.

 

[nvabill]

Yup, so a 2-minute video about a poorly maintained Hyundai from 30 years ago justifies the Great Chicago Polar Vortex EV Fiasco of 2024. LOL.

You bring up a good point as the average age of ICE vehicles is much more than the average age of EV's.

"The average age of battery electric vehicles (BEV) in the U.S. actually fell to 3.6 years, down slightly from 3.7 years in 2022."

"The average age of 12.5 years is a record for American car ownership, and is a result of multiple factors. The pandemic is the biggest and most obvious contributor, as its lingering effects on supply chains restricted inventory throughout 2022, increasing prices."

 

[TheSteelRider]

The problem with cold operation EV is battery chemistry. Supposedly the next gen EV battery is still lithium-based solid-state. I've not seen much discussion regarding solid-state battery cold weather performance.

A quick search found this from UPS battery.com (not sure if this is applicable to the automotive sector):

"Do Solid-State Battery Electrolytes Like Low Temperatures?
Solid batteries seem set to beat liquid-electrolyte lithium-ion across this dimension. That’s because the solid version does not become sluggish, or freeze in cold weather as liquid electrolyte does. Whereas the ions in lithium-ion batteries slow down considerably, resulting in slower charging and recharging, and reduced capacity.

The commonest lithium-ion battery electrolyte is a lithium-ion salt in an organic solvent. However, solid-state alternatives open up a wider range of options, including ceramics, polymers, and sulfides. None of these freeze or become sluggish in cold winters, meaning solid-state batteries continue to perform well in icy weather.

But unfortunately this does not mean that these revolutionary batteries are completely immune from winter cold. This is because solid batteries contain more than just electrolytes. They also have temperature-sensitive electrodes. And moreover, their solid electrolytes become fragile, and that needs more work to resolve too.

The State of Solid Electrodes and Electrolytes in Winter
Chemical reactions typically slow down with a drop in temperature. Solid battery electrodes follow this pattern. Ions shuttle more slowly between them, and their level of performance suffers.

A solid electrolyte may not freeze, but it does become more brittle as temperature falls. This can compromise the reliability of the battery, which might eventually fail. It goes almost without saying that battery makers are working hard to resolve these challenges.

Their programs include exploring different materials for solid electrodes, but also developing self-heating batteries according to website TS2.Space. These heaters could come on automatically when battery temperature falls to a particular threshold level, potentially resolving this issue."

But the point is EV are competing against ICEV and ICEV are less problematic in frigid weather. Again, the answer for EV is wait for the next gen technology. Wait, wait, wait.

Except, I didn't wait. And during the freeze-pocolypse that has folks knickers tied up in a bunch affected me not. In fact, out of the now millions of EVs on the road now in the United States, it appeared only "dozens" were affected according to the news story.

So, what gives? We all wait because some area in Chicago once experienced some issue that affected some couple dozen people at some small geographic location in the city? And, how long do we wait? When is the benchmark for "ok now is the right time"?

 

[MacherAWD]

Exactly, when is the right time to adopt EV? Obviously, it depends on one's personal requirements for their use case. But from someone reluctant to switch from ICEV to EV a lot of EV owners and the industry suggest waiting if you want a better EV experience. It's been like that since the EV1 was leased by GM in response to the 1990 CARB zero-emission vehicle mandate. Wait.

For us the right time was when I switched to a 50 mile roundtrip daily commute. I replaced the Ford Escape with a used Nissan Leaf. Handled its duties perfectly and saved me a TON of money. Then a few years later we upgraded it and were ready to try an EV as our primary car (mach-e), now 2 years later we are dual EV, no ICE. So we dipped a toe, then knew we were ready.

Virtually everyone with a daily commute should replace that car with an EV if they have at home charging and a 2nd car to use for road trips. If you commute in a civic or small car, get a used Bolt. If you like a small, sporty sedan, get a Tesla 3. If you commute in an A4 or a 3 or 5 series, go with a Mach-e.

Another thing I tell people considering is you have to change the "my car, my spouse's car" mentality, you should be willing to trade off to use the right car for the job that day.

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