Ford cancels Model e Dealer Program, letting all US retailers sell EVs

[Dear_OP]

So you can now buy a Ford EV from any dealership but servicing is specific to certified Model e shops.
I get it if it is a niche limited production vehicle. The Mach E ain't that.

Imagine the frustration for the regular folks?

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[Blue highway]

Batteries are so expensive that it would probably have to be $90k+ though. Which is why it doesn't exist. Battery energy density has to double and prices per kWh cut in half before we see something like that. Which could still be 5-10 years off.

That's why Ford is being forced to go in the opposite direction for Gen2 - smaller, lighter, cheaper, which surely means limited range too.

range matters... but cost matters more. Proof? In the real world, Teslas are 250 mile cars... there are millions of these on the road... 250 works if there are enough chargers around.

 

[dbsb3233]

So you can now buy a Ford EV from any dealership but servicing is specific to certified Model e shops.
I get it if it is a niche limited production vehicle. The Mach E ain't that.

Imagine the frustration for the regular folks?

The other way would have been not being able to buy an EV from those dealers either.

Is that really better?

 

[phil]

Hawaii is closer to China than any other state ? (competition). Just sayin'

Closer than any other state except one.

 

[Jtbuster]

I can’t help but feel Ford has been making a lot of bad moves here recently.

Care to elucidate on what”making a lot of bad moves here recently” are?

 

[dbsb3233]

range matters... but cost matters more. Proof? In the real world, Teslas are 250 mile cars... there are millions of these on the road... 250 works if there are enough chargers around.

Yep. If Ford's cost to make the MME were like 30k instead of 60k (or whatever the numbers are), they'd be in great shape with EVs. But they're nowhere close. Battery costs are the most obvious part of that (especially before they get their own battery plants open), but it's more than just that. Another elephant in the room is the union that Tesla doesn't have to deal with. They fight against some of the very things that would allow Ford to get closer to Tesla on costs. Labor costs, of course, but the union also gets in the way of more automation that would displace jobs.

Govt policy doesn't help either. The MME would be doing much better if it still got the $7500 tax credit, but ironically, the very protectionist policies that were intended to help US EV production are hurting it instead. Losing the $7500 by not being able to use cheaper battery imports makes the whole vehicle too expensive to make a profit on, because consumers will only pay so much before they say "Sorry, that's too much, I'm buying something else instead".

 

[mkhuffman]

Batteries are so expensive that it would probably have to be $90k+ though. Which is why it doesn't exist. Battery energy density has to double and prices per kWh cut in half before we see something like that. Which could still be 5-10 years off.

That's why Ford is being forced to go in the opposite direction for Gen2 - smaller, lighter, cheaper, which surely means limited range too.

Yes, I agree, but that does not change what we need and what I want.

The Lucid Air GT is $100k. The Rivian Tri-Motor Max is $100k. I get it. And certainly the mass market is not going to be spending $100k on a vehicle. My point is simply that is what is needed for mass market adoption.

Our household cannot go full BEV until that happens. And others don't even want one of them until that happens. It is totally reasonable to wait for the technology to mature and energy density to improve to the point where everyone can afford a 500-mile range BEV.

IMO.

 

[migmig420]

Care to elucidate on what”making a lot of bad moves here recently” are?

Sure:
I’ll start with killing this program which was to tamp down on over pricing their EVs and force dealers to actually sell them and service them. I love my Mach E, I’m loosing faith in Ford being able to execute any of their plans, which makes me hesitant to buy another EV from ford.
Another issue would them pushing back EV spending and models. Meanwhile Hyundai, GM, Kia all seem to be full steam ahead, hell GM just dropped 3 models with in a few months. And just surpassed Ford in ev sales for May. Ford can’t compete so instead of investing they are pulling back, most logical thing they could come up with. You can’t win this race if you aren’t in the race and waiting another year or two for new models is just terrible.
once you respond I’ll make a few more points.

 

[Sikkun]

Would hate to road trip with someone who thinks you should only stop for 20 minutes once every 7 hours.

 

[kentkt]

Would hate to road trip with someone who thinks you should only stop for 20 minutes once every 7 hours.

And it wouldn’t be 20 minutes. 500 miles is a lot of kw to pump.

 

[dbsb3233]

Would hate to road trip with someone who thinks you should only stop for 20 minutes once every 7 hours.

Stopping and charging are not the same thing. I think that was the point. Charging requires specific routes and specific half hour stops at a small selection DCFC choices, that aren't always that dependable.

Stopping in an ICE vehicle, OTOH, is entirely flexible. Not route-constrained, not time-constrained, not location constrained. Want lunch? Stop at any restaurant that sounds good, not just the McDonalds that happens to be next to the EA station. Wanna go off course without a set plan? Fine. Wanna do a 700 mile day in 11 hours instead of 13? Fine.

We're big road-trippers in our Mach-E, so I'm intimately familiar with the compromises and extra planning it takes. We're fine with that, but I know that's not everyone. It's not even most people.

 

[dbsb3233]

Sure:
I’ll start with killing this program which was to tamp down on over pricing their EVs and force dealers to actually sell them and service them. I love my Mach E, I’m loosing faith in Ford being able to execute any of their plans, which makes me hesitant to buy another EV from ford.
Another issue would them pushing back EV spending and models. Meanwhile Hyundai, GM, Kia all seem to be full steam ahead, hell GM just dropped 3 models with in a few months. And just surpassed Ford in ev sales for May. Ford can’t compete so instead of investing they are pulling back, most logical thing they could come up with. You can’t win this race if you aren’t in the race and waiting another year or two for new models is just terrible.
once you respond I’ll make a few more points.

I don't think I'd use GM as an example. It took GM 5 years just to get to the point Ford was at 3 years ago. Their Blazer and Equinox were sitting on the drawing board while thousands were buying actual MMEs.

And they're scaling back EV plans too.

https://www.automotivedive.com/news/gm-evs-abandons-plan-build-400000-mid-2024/697670/

Hyundia/Kia (really one company) are more global, where they have to target Asian and European markets more.

 

[Snakebitten]

Horror stories for getting an EV serviced are far from a Ford exclusive.

And although Kia/Hyundai have come a long ways in producing products that Americans will buy, they have plenty of unhappy customers regarding the dealership experience.

I own several Ford products and have for much of the 50+ years I've been a licensed driver. I've had really good luck with them too, in spite of the occasional shortcomings of after sale service. And even that hasn't been poor enough to sully any vehicle yet. I say "yet" with a bit of trepidation, since a couple of the current vehicles are loaded with computers and technology. A bit daunting when pondering ownership beyond warranty coverage.

 

[Sikkun]

Stopping and charging are not the same thing. I think that was the point. Charging requires specific routes and specific half hour stops at a small selection DCFC choices, that aren't always that dependable.

Stopping in an ICE vehicle, OTOH, is entirely flexible. Not route-constrained, not time-constrained, not location constrained. Want lunch? Stop at any restaurant that sounds good, not just the McDonalds that happens to be next to the EA station. Wanna go off course without a set plan? Fine. Wanna do a 700 mile day in 11 hours instead of 13? Fine.

We're big road-trippers in our Mach-E, so I'm intimately familiar with the compromises and extra planning it takes. We're fine with that, but I know that's not everyone. It's not even most people.

If you want to break it down to most people.

Most people don’t drive more than 200 miles in a single day more than a couple times at most per year. Needing 500 miles of range isn’t an actual barrier for most people.

Most people could use the savings from gas from charging at home the 99.9% of the time and rent a vehicle for said road trip and end up in a better position.

 

[mkhuffman]

If you want to break it down to most people.

Most people don’t drive more than 200 miles in a single day more than a couple times at most per year. Needing 500 miles of range isn’t an actual barrier for most people.

Most people could use the savings form gas from charging at home the 99.9% of the time and rent a vehicle for said road trip and end up in a better position.

There are a lot of people who do not have the ability to charge at home. So if your preposition is correct, only those who have the ability to charge at home are able to handle the current range BEVs offer. Imagine needing to find an open DCFC every day, or every other day. What a horrible experience that would be. So take them out. They cannot be BEV owners and live a life worth living, IMO.

And those who can charge at home? Sure, maybe only once or twice a year they exceed the limit of how far they can drive and make it home without a DCFC stop. Well, on those days, when everyone else is also driving beyond their home limits, a longer range BEV will mean less DCFC congestion, and a much better ability to pick where you want to stop, instead of where you have to stop. And on busy weekends when lots of people are going out of town, it matters. A lot.

We can agree to disagree.

And it wouldn’t be 20 minutes. 500 miles is a lot of kw to pump.

Yeah, but that is still better than stopping twice as much. My car may sit longer at a stop, but then maybe I have time to eat, rather than shoveling down a meal in 20 minutes.

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