PA to stary an annual “road user fee” to EV owners

[zvez]

Which is exactly why I think they should earmark some of them for that.

I’m kinda shocked how many people here seem to be in favor of paying more taxes than their neighbors.

I would have thought the idea would be to encourage BEV adoption by decreasing our taxes, not having us pay more than ICE drivers. ?‍

don't know about your state but my monthly taxes on electricity are tiny compared to the 29 cents a gallon gas tax. So not sure how that would work.

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[cheerioboy26]

One thing I'm curious about with this new PA tax is how it's going to work with 2 year registration renewals when the fee/tax is based on the consumer price index after 2026.

If the current year is 2026 and I want to renew for 2 years, I'd pay $250 for the current year, and how much for the following year?

The legislation says a two-year fee is twice the fee, so acknowledging that the EV fee is supposed to go up every year with CPI (other PennDOT fees go up every two years with CPI), Perhaps we can save a few bucks by paying for two years up front.

(4) IF AN OWNER OR REGISTRANT OF AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE OR PLUG-IN HYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLE ELECTS TO PAY AN ANNUAL REGISTRATION FEE FOR A TWO-YEAR REGISTRATION PERIOD AS PROVIDED UNDER SECTION 1307(G) (RELATING TO PERIOD OF REGISTRATION), THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE ROAD USER CHARGE SHALL BE TWO TIMES THE AMOUNT REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION AS DETERMINED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

 

[Mach1E]

don't know about your state but my monthly taxes on electricity are tiny compared to the 29 cents a gallon gas tax. So not sure how that would work.

I tried to make sense of an FPL bill for 1000 kWh (2500 miles).
https://www.fpl.com/content/dam/fplgp/us/en/rates/pdf/residential-explanation.pdf

2/3 of the bill is for taxes, fees, and infrastructure stuff.

Doesn’t seem “tiny” to me.

 

[zvez]

I tried to make sense of an FPL bill for 1000 kWh (2500 miles).
https://www.fpl.com/content/dam/fplgp/us/en/rates/pdf/residential-explanation.pdf

2/3 of the bill is for taxes, fees, and infrastructure stuff.

Doesn’t seem “tiny” to me.

You can't really count infrastructure stuff as part of the tax.
Last month's GA electric bill. So out of my last month's bill of 1282 kwh, only 200 kwh is for my charging. electric bill with tax but no fees for the month was $238 (this works out to .186 cents per kwh with tax and .168 cents per kwh without tax) . with a total tax of $21. So the tax on the 200kwh is $3.60, that's a pretty small amount.

Electricity looks pretty cheap in FL even with all the taxes and fees going by the sample bill you showed, but it's overly complex in explaining the different fees and seems nearly impossible to figure out the tax part of the bill. GA's much simpler.

 

[Space_Pony]

Here in Virginia, the EV road tax is mileage based. You can pay a flat fee of about $230/year or, like myself, you can plug-in a DMV gizmo into your OBD port (supplied by the state) which tracks your mileage. If you travel less then 11,600 per year you pay less. I travel between 8k-9k. If you drive more than that, you don't pay more than the flat fee.

How does that work, if you drive out of state? You should only pay for miles driven in the state collecting the tax as gas taxes are collected locally. Does the OBD device detect location and disregard out of state miles.

 

[Billyk24]

except in places like PA and others that attempt to calculate a 'equivalent' flat tax for EVs based on average miles rather than actual weight and miles.

I think it's important to include both metrics in the future to inspire good behavior from the general market. If it costs individuals less to drive smaller, lighter vehicles fewer miles.... they will ask for smaller, lighter vehicles.

If it cost less to insure and repair simpler vehicles without cameras and sensors and infotainment features... then that's what *most* of the market will buy. The bells and whistles are great for high-end trims for people that WANT it, but lower-middle trims need to be available to keep sales volume up.

That might be how it’s supposed to be used, but at least in the Pittsburgh area it’s done for all but highways.

It is done in other states only lesser travel roads. Seen it and driven on it elsewhere.

 

[Mach1E]

You can't really count infrastructure stuff as part of the tax.
Last month's GA electric bill. So out of my last month's bill of 1282 kwh, only 200 kwh is for my charging. electric bill with tax but no fees for the month was $238 (this works out to .186 cents per kwh with tax and .168 cents per kwh without tax) . with a total tax of $21. So the tax on the 200kwh is $3.60, that's a pretty small amount.

Electricity looks pretty cheap in FL even with all the taxes and fees going by the sample bill you showed, but it's overly complex in explaining the different fees and seems nearly impossible to figure out the tax part of the bill. GA's much simpler.

Why can’t you count infrastructure as part of the tax??

Isn’t this discussion about taxes to pay for infrastructure (roads)?

 

[JerryR]

How does that work, if you drive out of state? You should only pay for miles driven in the state collecting the tax as gas taxes are collected locally. Does the OBD device detect location and disregard out of state miles.

It doesn't track my location. It has that capability, but I turned that feature off. It only tracks my total miles each day and displays it on a bar graph in the website by month. So to answer your question, the total miles are tracked despite whether you travel in or out of state. If I were to pay the lump sum each year during registration instead of what I am doing now, it all goes to Virginia, no matter where I travel. I suspect other states get a tax benefit (?) when I use their level 3 charging stations during my out-of-state trips.

 

[Jimrpa]

That might be how it’s supposed to be used, but at least in the Pittsburgh area it’s done for all but highways.

I can’t say that I’ve seen an oiled and chipped road around Philadelphia since I was a child. Not saying it’s not done, but it’s not widespread around here.

 

[Jimrpa]

except in places like PA and others that attempt to calculate a 'equivalent' flat tax for EVs based on average miles rather than actual weight and miles.

I think it's important to include both metrics in the future to inspire good behavior from the general market. If it costs individuals less to drive smaller, lighter vehicles fewer miles.... they will ask for smaller, lighter vehicles.

If it cost less to insure and repair simpler vehicles without cameras and sensors and infotainment features... then that's what *most* of the market will buy. The bells and whistles are great for high-end trims for people that WANT it, but lower-middle trims need to be available to keep sales volume up.

Do you have any idea how impractical it would be to collect such metrics? I’ll report that my car weighs 2 lbs and is driven 7 miles per year.
I have no idea how road use taxes are related to vehicle safety and infotainment systems. You are aware that the overwhelming contributor to an EVs weight is the battery pack, not a handful of cameras and ultrasonic sensors?

 

[Jimrpa]

for states that already do safety/emissions inspections, all you'd have to add is reading the ODO to calculate fair registration fee.

AND put in all of the additional “infrastructure” to support variable fees. And how do you handle equity? Suppose that you have a low-income person who, for whatever reason, has to drive a lot of miles (to work or something)?

 

[garyd9]

Do you have any idea how impractical it would be to collect such metrics? I’ll report that my car weighs 2 lbs and is driven 7 miles per year.
I have no idea how road use taxes are related to vehicle safety and infotainment systems. You are aware that the overwhelming contributor to an EVs weight is the battery pack, not a handful of cameras and ultrasonic sensors?

Curb weight can be determined from your car VIN. There's no need for you to report it. Miles driven can also be determined from your yearly state safety inspection.

 

[dtbaker61]

Do you have any idea how impractical it would be to collect such metrics? I’ll report that my car weighs 2 lbs and is driven 7 miles per year.
I have no idea how road use taxes are related to vehicle safety and infotainment systems. You are aware that the overwhelming contributor to an EVs weight is the battery pack, not a handful of cameras and ultrasonic sensors?

easy to read actual odo for miles, and factory spec for GVW, no scale needed.

and yes EVs are heavier than ice, which damages roads more, so big evs with huge batteries should pay more per mile

 

[Jimrpa]

Which is exactly why I think they should earmark some of them for that.

I’m kinda shocked how many people here seem to be in favor of paying more taxes than their neighbors.

I would have thought the idea would be to encourage BEV adoption by decreasing our taxes, not having us pay more than ICE drivers. ?‍

So, how much of the electricity tax should be reallocated to “electric road tax”? How do you propose to make up the resulting shortfall in the budget(s) reliant on electricity taxes? And what about my neighbors who drive Ford Excursions, Chevy Suburbans, Range Rovers, Mercedes G-wagons, and so on? Why should they have to pay “double road tax”, since you now want part of their electric taxes to go to roads and they pay road taxes on their fuel?
What PA is doing seems like a reasonable compromise - a very simple form of a “use tax”.

 

[Jimrpa]

Curb weight can be determined from your car VIN. There's no need for you to report it. Miles driven can also be determined from your yearly state safety inspection.

You’re missing the point - all of that data would have to be collected and maintained in totally new systems. Also, some people might object to the state collecting odometer data (I believe PA may already collect that as part of state inspection).

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