The depressing reality of buying an EV: Especially bad resale [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[Thunderbuck]

I'm going to repeat my delusional rant from similar threads.

I think the depressed resale values on EVs is a temporary thing, and they'll actually recover. Consumer sentiment is currently being swayed by a lot of FUD, but a few things will happen that will change things:

1) As more people gain direct experience with EVs, they'll like them more often than not. They may gain this experience at ride-and-drive events, from family members, or because they have to drive an EV for work, but the point is that millions of North Americans are going to experience EVs for the first time in the next few years. And a lot of them will be pleasantly surprised.

2) The current depressed resale values are making EVs attainable to a lot of people who would have had to wait otherwise. As well, Uber/Lyft offer special incentives for EV drivers, so the market for late-model EVs is going to be important for them, too.

3) The charging infrastructure is improving almost daily, and every new charger that goes in makes EVs more valuable.

This will get better, and overall the demand is there.

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[DennisD]

Your reading compression needs work. ??

I beg to differ.

Let us recap:

1. You purchased and own a MME.
2. You suggest that only "greenies" and the affluent purchase said vehicles.
3. You seem to suggest that a person that has yet to sell their MME will incur a loss and they don't realize it yet.
4. You next go on an EV Forum that is filled with "greenies" (and belittle those that live in Maryland btw) and complain that EV's are worthless.

Let us just take the "loss" example if you will.

I purchased my 2022 Premium AWD MME back in 22 and after the tax credit I was in it for 42K.

I use my MME for my business and I am able to take the miles off the car for depreciation at a rate of 67 cents per mile.

I usually keep my cars to around 100k miles. That figures out to around $67,000 in tax savings. I exclusively plug my car in at home and I have Solar Panels that help "charge" it.

The rate of depreciation is not a thing that keeps me up at night. Whether the rate is accelerated or not, it really has no impact on my finances personally.

In fact, the taxes that I pay for registration per year is actually lower if my car depreciates at a higher rate in the early years. (I would be better off if it was zero)

Now like I have said before, if one purchases a new vehicle every 2 or 3 years they are going to take a bath on it when selling it more times than not. If you keep the more depreciated cars longer, it all evens out in the end and it has no bearing.

I purchased my car as more of a novelty and just wanted to see if I liked owning an EV. I would most likely do it again. If I were to complain about owning one, I most likely wouldn't take the time to read someone else's comment on a Forum filled with people I don't relate to and comment that they don't comprehend my posts.

I would simply disengage and sell my car at a loss and complain about my next car purchase and how much I hate the people that own that one as well. (and somehow, not be in the same boat as them)

 

[available_username2]

Cars are a terrible purchase, but EVs are even worse.

I bought a 2022 MME Premium for what I thought was a good price, patting myself on the back for buying CPO. The MSRP on the 2022 MME Premium was roughly $51k, and I bought mine with 6k miles for $37k. Roughly 27% off of MSRP for an 18-month-old car seemed pretty good, and I knew more feature enhancements through software updates were coming. Well, 10 months later, I realized I way overpaid. Prices for CPO MMEs keep plummeting. A 2023 MME Premium can be had for $3k less than what I paid.

After paying for tax, title, licensing fees, etc., I owe way more than the car is worth. Worse, had I waited until early 2024 to buy the car, I could have at least gotten a $4500 tax credit for two-year-old used EVs.

I love my MME, but most EVs are bad for the manufacturer—Ford loses roughly $60k for every EV it sells—and bad for the buyer. I plan on keeping this car long-term, but it's worth noting that buying EVs is potentially financially ruinous for both parties. I also own a 2016 Chevy Volt Premium, which I gave to my teenage son, and Chevy lost money on every one it sold. I bought that CPO, too. I think hybrids are the way to go, and Toyota stated publicly that they'll never build a fully electric vehicle.

2022 (released in 2021) prices were artificially high across all cars. COVID supply chain disruptions meant low supply which drove up prices in both the used and new car market.

And it makes zero sense for you to be complaining. 10 months, so almost a year later, a one year later model, with a little more miles, is $3k less. That's essentially the exact same price.

Also the $4500 tax credit is only for cars under $25k.

you're being ridiculous.

 

[zvez]

Simple logic but yet hard for some on this thread to comprehend.

the lack of having any real maintenance to do on this car is a huge benefit over ICE vehicles

That's not the point, and your comments aren't constructive.

The facts:

1. Ford is losing a lot of money on every EV they sell. EV sales are down 20%, too.
2. Customers are seeing a massive depreciation on nearly every EV purchased.

I got my early 21 with club membership discount and msrp. Then I got the bright idea to order a 23 gt last july. Car was delivered a few days before ford starting making the big price cuts. So I got some minor discounts but even the price reduction the car was $67k. A year later it's probably worth $30k. so it sucks but it is what it is. It's been problem free (except for a charging issue which ford sorted) just like my 21

 

[Dear_OP]

I think there are alot FUD going on with EV used prices. I simply am not seeing it here in BC. That damn Taycan Turbo S is still still beyond my reach. Where is that Model S Plaid for $25k???
I'm still waiting for used BMW i3 to come down to $5k but it's not happening. I mean those cars came out 10 years ago. Yet 2014 models are still commanding > $15k where I am. ?‍

I'd love a cheap used EV runabout for city driving and doing mundane stuff.

 

[Rudi Krupsdahl]

If you plan on keeping the car, current resale value is meaningless unless it gets totaled. ?‍?

Wouldn't an insurance company simply price it according to the market price, if it happened as a owner?

 

[Snakebitten]

Wouldn't an insurance company simply price it according to the market price, if it happened as a owner?

I think he's pointing out the lousy scenario of if/when an insurance payoff is less than what's owed on the vehicle

 

[Norcolboulder]

That's exactly the plan.

When the market adjusted February 24 I found a CPO. 23 GTPE - yes a good price and I own my cars - just enjoy the ride

 

[rcechinel]

a battery that provides 50 miles of range and then kicks over to gas when you need it. Toyota agrees, too.

Two half-ass propulsion systems, neither one great or fun (or the price would be too high). Sure, that's the future.

People just freak out. When everything was $15k above msrp everyone thought it would last forever. Now everyone thinks evs will never be profitable.
Calm down, people. Everything changes all the time. Tesla determines the price fluctuations by applying discounts because their old models don't keep their factories busy. This pressures the market in the short term. As Tesla continues to lose market share over time to new entrants, their influence will be smaller, other manufacturers will achieve better scale, and the pricing will stabilize.

Or freak out and make bad decisions. That works, too.

Toyota is just anti-EV because they took too long to jump on it, lost the chance to become leaders, and want their dominance in hybrid to be meaningful for as long as possible.

 

[Vulnox]

Two half-ass propulsion systems, neither one great or fun (or the price would be too high). Sure, that's the future.

People just freak out. When everything was $15k above msrp everyone thought it would last forever. Now everyone thinks evs will never be profitable.
Calm down, people. Everything changes all the time. Tesla determines the price fluctuations by applying discounts because their old models don't keep their factories busy. This pressures the market in the short term. As Tesla continues to lose market share over time to new entrants, their influence will be smaller, other manufacturers will achieve better scale, and the pricing will stabilize.

Or freak out and make bad decisions. That works, too.

Toyota is just anti-EV because they took too long to jump on it, lost the chance to become leaders, and want their dominance in hybrid to be meaningful for as long as possible.

Yeah, it's wild to me at this point that people are acting like PHEVs are some miracle solution. They are the worst of both worlds.

You get 50 miles of EV range, GREAT! "That's all I need 99% of the time!" Okay, so then a BEV is also right for you and you won't have to worry about oil changes, fuel preservation, buying gas, lugging around an engine you don't need 99% of the time by your own admission.

"But what about when I go on a trip? Now I have a gas engine and it takes 4.5 seconds to refuel!"

Alright fine, let's talk about your road trip. There isn't a PHEV out there that I have seen that doesn't have a small gas tank compared to its hybrid or pure ICE cousins. That doesn't make them inadequate, but you will still get ballpark BEV distance on most of their fuel tanks before you refill. You can say that at least your refill is faster, but even if you are speedy mcrefuel and don't need to stop and get food or anything else on this trip, you're talking about this 1% of your year usage for this one trip to maybe save 15 minutes every four hours or so.

So you lug around that gas engine all year for this one trip to save a little time. Time you will still lose throughout the year between oil changes and fuel ups, since PHEVs still run their engine and have to for maintenance cycles. I remember our PHEV that would start at least a couple times per week and run and warm up. Just burning gas to keep an engine and fuel system healthy we only need 1% of the year.

Hybrids are great, they still take a fuel tank hit but it's a lot smaller. If you are really terrified of BEVs then check out a hybrid. But PHEVs just make so little sense and work to their owners benefit in fewer cases than BEVs do. If you can't charge at home a PHEV is pointless. If you can, get a BEV. If your driving 99% of the year is mostly handled by 50 miles of range (and even then in winter it's usually a bit less, so better make sure!), then a BEV will be even better and leave you range to spare for when your day is more than 50 miles.

I swear people just get into the PHEV camp now because it seems like the rebel thing to do.

We owned PHEVs, Hybrids, BEVs, ICE, they definitely all have their pros and cons, but PHEV is only just above ICE in terms of real world ownership for anyone that really sits down and runs the numbers in how much you waste lugging that engine around.

 

[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
So you lug around that gas engine all year for this one trip to save a little time.
<SNIP>

Eh, I have a couple of big V8s and a small one all year-round. They run a few times a year and go nowhere. LOL ??

 

[devmach-e]

Cool story. I've done it, and I saved 25%. Have you even tried?

You are the first person I’ve encountered that was able to negotiate directly with the leasing company for a lower buyout. I’ve never tried because I‘ve never leased.

 

[ryannix123]

Two half-ass propulsion systems, neither one great or fun (or the price would be too high). Sure, that's the future.

People just freak out. When everything was $15k above msrp everyone thought it would last forever. Now everyone thinks evs will never be profitable.
Calm down, people. Everything changes all the time. Tesla determines the price fluctuations by applying discounts because their old models don't keep their factories busy. This pressures the market in the short term. As Tesla continues to lose market share over time to new entrants, their influence will be smaller, other manufacturers will achieve better scale, and the pricing will stabilize.

Or freak out and make bad decisions. That works, too.

Toyota is just anti-EV because they took too long to jump on it, lost the chance to become leaders, and want their dominance in hybrid to be meaningful for as long as possible.

Two half-ass propulsion systems, neither one great or fun (or the price would be too high). Sure, that's the future.

People just freak out. When everything was $15k above msrp everyone thought it would last forever. Now everyone thinks evs will never be profitable.
Calm down, people. Everything changes all the time. Tesla determines the price fluctuations by applying discounts because their old models don't keep their factories busy. This pressures the market in the short term. As Tesla continues to lose market share over time to new entrants, their influence will be smaller, other manufacturers will achieve better scale, and the pricing will stabilize.

Or freak out and make bad decisions. That works, too.

Toyota is just anti-EV because they took too long to jump on it, lost the chance to become leaders, and want their dominance in hybrid to be meaningful for as long as possible.

Half-assed pro propulsion systems? My Volt is very quick off the line, and I love to drive it. In many ways, it handles better than the MME because it doesn't feel as heavy. Sure, the combustion engine is slow, but I rarely use it. Toyota essentially cloned the Volt for its new Prius, which I considered buying until I settled on a CPO MME for roughly the same price as a fully loaded Prius.

Again, Ford is losing money on EVs, and we, their customers, are not doing much better with the steep drop in value after the sale.

Tesla is the only company making money on EVs because they've perfected the process.

 

[davem251]

Yeah forcing a more expensive and inferior overall product on consumers while stripping the Earth of rare Earth minerals is genius stuff -- very analogous to saving lives via low cost seatbelts which folks readily adopted. EV's have been rejected in free markets by all except greenies and affluents which is why their resale is absolute sh*t per the point of OP. Not at all surprised you are from Maryland.

Hmmm, I have heard your narrative many times, from many sources and have trouble understanding where all of the hate comes from.

Having said that, I'm not from Maryland, I just live here.

"More expensive" and "inferior" are matters of opinion. I'm on my second electric car (still own both) and have found them to be superior and about the same price.

I'm still waiting for someone to be "forced" into a car dealership to buy an EV.

Finally, resale value on most cars is crap, they depreciate quickly. From a financial perspective, it is not "genius stuff" to buy a new car.

 

[Dear_OP]

I think PHEV has its place especially for folks who live in apartments or rentals and it is their single vehicle for transportation.
PHEV looks to be picking up in North America due to range anxiety and/or lack of EV charging infrastructure in rural areas. GM & Ford have pivoted to increase PHEV production. A 100-200km electric range PHEV would seriously affect BEV market share and pure play EV makers.

I don't dislike PHEVs if it means one less ICE. The problem as I read somewhere is that PHEV drivers don't have the same diligence to charge up the vehicles' small battery pack. This means the PHEV is actually less efficient than ICE.

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