Inadvertent cruise control at slow speeds while turning

[AliRafiee]

I wonder why ford places the thumb rests on all their steering wheels at a perfect location for 10-2 hand positioning? ?

Bad design. ?

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[Mache_Nor]

I guess you have never had your computer running windows crash.
People who program these things are human. We can never get it 100% right.
But the OP is complaining about accidentally hitting the button with his palm. The only solution I see there is to remove the buttons if you’re not willing to adapt.

No, the solution is to make the software robust enough with enough fail safes and verifications that it behaves the same all the time. I agree that we have to account for the human factor, but this could have been solved if Ford made it such that you cannot activate it no matter what when below the normal activation speed. It would come at a cost of not supporting stop and go cruise control, but it would be much safer.

There actually is an interesting case in Norway these days; a Volvo went through a wall at a parking house, killing the driver. There is a big investigation going on as it seems as an uncontrolled acceleration incident. If it turns out it was CC - it will get spicy. In Europe the consumer rights are much stronger, inconsistency that can lead to danger is frowned upon, meaning it might set precedent. The vehicle and thus its producers cannot hide behind the “users responsible” when things are inconsistent, such as the Ford’s implementation of CC.

 

[Jimrpa]

No, the solution is to make the software robust enough with enough fail safes and verifications that it behaves the same all the time. I agree that we have to account for the human factor, but this could have been solved if Ford made it such that you cannot activate it no matter what when below the normal activation speed. It would come at a cost of not supporting stop and go cruise control, but it would be much safer.

There actually is an interesting case in Norway these days; a Volvo went through a wall at a parking house, killing the driver. There is a big investigation going on as it seems as an uncontrolled acceleration incident. If it turns out it was CC - it will get spicy. In Europe the consumer rights are much stronger, inconsistency that can lead to danger is frowned upon, meaning it might set precedent. The vehicle and thus its producers cannot hide behind the “users responsible” when things are inconsistent, such as the Ford’s implementation of CC.

Are these the same Europeans who are on the verge of banning all red food colorings?

 

[Mache_Nor]

Are these the same Europeans who are on the verge of banning all red food colorings?

I think this is an excellent example of what the OP pointed out about the lack of valid responses to his / her issues.

Well, consumer and safety regulations are nothing new. Seatbelts, child seats, flame resistant materials in the car, crumbling / impact zones and whatnot are all thanks to these boring regulations that try to take care of the driver and their surroundings. It might seems like an hassle to take into consideration that people are people, and that things have to be designed in such a way that it cannot be that the only security measurement is to “don’t click that, stupid, and if you click that, know that in 1% or the times it will do something else”.

 

[Jimrpa]

I think this is an excellent example of what the OP pointed out about the lack of valid / intelligent responses to his / her issues.

Actually, several very knowledgeable people have tried to provide thoughtful, detailed answers to the OPs concern. Whether the OP chooses to take those into consideration is another matter.
My particular comment was directed in response to the statement about “European consumer rights”. I have a friend who works closely with Brussels on regulatory issues in another industry. The experience related to me is that the bureaucrats (or “Eurocrats” if you prefer) tend to be either not very competent in their supposed field of expertise, or merely possess academic credentials with no real-world or industrial understanding of issues and their impacts. An interesting case study of exactly this can be seen in Germany, looking at their policy towards nuclear power. Someone made the decision that nuclear power was “dangerous” and the government ordered the rapid shutdown of all nuclear power plants, without putting in place a rational plan for replacing the lost generating capacity. Consequently, Germany now has to import even more energy from external sources (such as electricity from France) and the cost to the german citizens and economy is really high. But, on the bright side, they’ve shut down every last one of those evil nuclear power plants that were going to wipe out the population of Germany momentarily because they were horribly unsafe.

 

[Mache_Nor]

Actually, several very knowledgeable people have tried to provide thoughtful, detailed answers to the OPs concern. Whether the OP chooses to take those into consideration is another matter.
My particular comment was directed in response to the statement about “European consumer rights”. I have a friend who works closely with Brussels on regulatory issues in another industry. The experience related to me is that the bureaucrats (or “Eurocrats” if you prefer) tend to be either not very competent in their supposed field of expertise, or merely possess academic credentials with no real-world or industrial understanding of issues and their impacts. An interesting case study of exactly this can be seen in Germany, looking at their policy towards nuclear power. Someone made the decision that nuclear power was “dangerous” and the government ordered the rapid shutdown of all nuclear power plants, without putting in place a rational plan for replacing the lost generating capacity. Consequently, Germany now has to import even more energy from external sources (such as electricity from France) and the cost to the german citizens and economy is really high. But, on the bright side, they’ve shut down every last one of those evil nuclear power plants that were going to wipe out the population of Germany momentarily because they were horribly unsafe.

Let’s not go too much off topic (I’m to blame too, but just want to chime in to balance the narrative).

Are there borderline stupid regulations based on lack of understanding of the subject one tries to regulate - completely true. Yet, a lot of the regulations are what I would consider good. Take this example: Privacy is a human right (according to the European human right court), thus GDPR delivers on this need. One could add hundreds of regulations that helps the wellbeing of people, but will keep it short and advocate looking at the bigger picture than those few stupid regulations.

Then the case of German and their nuclear power situation. Is it stupid, yes, but understanding why it happened is important. It was not initially a political choice, rather that a large part of the population wanted and demanded the politicians to find other solutions. Why did people want this? Turns out dis- and misinformation is a powerfull tool, and traces points to Russia troll factories using non regulated channels to spew so much and so wrong information, that it altered the people’s perception of the matter. Back in Russia someone laughs while Europe tries to find a way forward without needing sources of energy from dictators and countries that fight against the values we all share.

Thanks for coming to my TED TALK

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I wonder why ford places the thumb rests on all their steering wheels at a perfect location for 10-2 hand positioning? ?

10-2 is no longer the preferred or best hand position for driving. People are now taught 9-3 or 8-4. The latter is more stable and comfortable in normal conditions. The former is more responsive during unexpected maneuvering. 8-4 avoids airbag injuries, 9-3 greatly reduce those same injuries.

 

[AliRafiee]

10-2 is no longer the preferred or best hand position for driving. People are now taught 9-3 or 8-4. The latter is more stable and comfortable in normal conditions. The former is more responsive during unexpected maneuvering. 8-4 avoids airbag injuries, 9-3 greatly reduce those same injuries.

This guy almost died holding at 10 and 2

 

[SonicBlue]

A generally response to the approximate 40% of posts in this thread about 10-2 or 9-3 or whatever hand positioning…

Hand positioning is largely irrelevant to this issue. The button is often accidentally pressed during quick spins of the wheel. Such as in parking lots. Yours hands are not in fixed positions during a spin of the wheel.

 

[AliRafiee]

A generally response to the approximate 40% of posts in this thread about 10-2 or 9-3 or whatever hand positioning…

Hand positioning is largely irrelevant to this issue. The button is often accidentally pressed during quick spins of the wheel. Such as in parking lots. Yours hands are not in fixed positions during a spin of the wheel.

That also depends on whether you’re using a one handed palm to spin the wheel or gripping the wheel.

 

[SonicBlue]

That also depends on whether you’re using a one handed palm to spin the wheel or gripping the wheel.

Sure… but nobody is spinning a wheel at 10-2 in a parking lot. Not without dislocating your shoulders. Those quick spins just make accidental button pushes more likely.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That also depends on whether you’re using a one handed palm to spin the wheel or gripping the wheel.

Finger tips curled around the wheel. I pretty much treat the steering wheel as an aircraft control column. My palms aren’t resting on the wheel at all.

The greater question is how common is the inadvertent engagement? In the 40 months I’ve owned the car I’ve yet to have it happen. If the answer is a lot then an alternative engagement routine is appropriate. If the answer is rarely, then perhaps a redesign of the hardware is an option. What I’d hate to see, though, is this very easy to use system morph into the mess that is in our 2020 Raptor. That one has so many different buttons and knobs in different locations that cruise control of any sort never gets used — it’s just not worth the effort.

 

[Womps]

Maybe this is the reason Lexus, Toyota, Audi, Mercedes and possibly some other manufacturers don’t have the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Sure… but nobody is spinning

Not true.

 

[AliRafiee]

Sure… but nobody is spinning a wheel at 10-2 in a parking lot. Not without dislocating your shoulders. Those quick spins just make accidental button pushes more likely.

I’m usually driving at 10 or 2. More like 9:30 or 2:30. But that doesn’t really matter. The point is be conscious of the buttons.
I think my turning into a parking spot is around 12 o’clock. And then grab with my other hand when my first hand gets to about 6.

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