Mach-e for Road Trips just sucks. Not even close. More expensive than gas

[Old_Norm]

.

Isn’t it the goal that the average person drives one?

Not surprised there was an education difference in 2013 though. Teslas weren’t cheap.

Agreed. The more people driving EVs the better for the climate, health and economy (and current EV owners .)

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[Sikkun]

Given EVs have traditionally cost more money. And people with more money have higher levels of education….

Really nothing shocking.

 

[Mach1E]

That is incorrect. Your assumption is, because 54% of US residents have college degrees 54% or ICE vehicles owners have college degrees. About 32% of US citizens report owning guns. Does that mean only 32% of NRA Members own guns? According to the CDC, approximately 41.9% of American adults are considered obese. Does that mean that 41.9% of the US Olympic team are obese? Approximately 1.2% of the US workforce are farmers. Does that mean that 1.2% percent of the people living in New York City are farmers?

I hope that explains the error in your logic.

It doesn’t.

NRA owners are a small subset of the population.

Gas car drivers is pretty much everyone who doesn’t drive an EV.

Either way, 54% and 56% are going to be well within the margin of error and not statistically significant enough to draw any conclusions.

Plus the “everyone” stat of 54% includes people who can’t afford a car. Pretty safe to assume those individuals skew more on the lower amount of college degree side.

My only point was that the numbers are close enough.

 

[Mach1E]

Read Post #282 and let me know what you think.

All of those articles basically draw the same conclusion-

That more than 50% of EV owners have college degrees.

But that isn’t the point we are arguing.

It’s the raw data numbers that we seem to disagree about.

Those articles do the one thing I HATE about statistical analysis……… draw conclusions without giving us all of the data to make something sound better.

Raw data- 56% of EV drivers have a college degree.

Manipulation to sound good- “Most EV drivers hold bachelors degrees or higher.”

Why is it manipulation? Because “Most Americans hold bachelors degrees or higher (54%).

Without giving us ALL of the information, the first statement is meaningless. We need all the raw data to compare (kinda like what was given in 2013 but updated numbers for 2023).

Why is the current education level of ICE drivers omitted? (Conspiracy theory coming), because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

Same crap the news pulls with statistics. They tell us crime went down 2% this year, but fail to mention it was up 10% last year…..

The Experian article from 2018 also had a quote that didn’t line up with everything else we have seen “compared to those with no college education, which made up just 11 percent.”

So 89% college educated?

 

[Old_Norm]

All of those articles basically draw the same conclusion-

That more than 50% of EV owners have college degrees.

But that isn’t the point we are arguing.

It’s the raw data numbers that we seem to disagree about.

Those articles do the one thing I HATE about statistical analysis……… draw conclusions without giving us all of the data to make something sound better.

Raw data- 56% of EV drivers have a college degree.

Manipulation to sound good- “Most EV drivers hold bachelors degrees or higher.”

Why is it manipulation? Because “Most Americans hold bachelors degrees or higher (54%).

Without giving us ALL of the information, the first statement is meaningless. We need all the raw data to compare (kinda like what was given in 2013 but updated numbers for 2023).

Why is the current education level of ICE drivers omitted? (Conspiracy theory coming), because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

Same crap the news pulls with statistics. They tell us crime went down 2% this year, but fail to mention it was up 10% last year…..

The Experian article from 2018 also had a quote that didn’t line up with everything else we have seen “compared to those with no college education, which made up just 11 percent.”

So 89% college educated?

Your stats about Batchelor degrees are not correct.
" In the Census Bureau’s most recent 2022 findings, the percentage of people with a bachelor’s degree or higher remained stable from the previous year at around 37.7%." Clear that up and we can discuss further since that fact defeats your whole argument.

 

[Old_Norm]

Ah, so you're just about the game of argument rather than the analysis of the data.

"A notable trend emerges when examining the importance of a company’s social consciousness. Those inclined to buy an electric car are more likely to value corporate social responsibility. Nearly 40% of potential EV buyers consider a company’s social consciousness very important, compared to just over 20% of those who would not buy an EV. This suggests that environmental and ethical considerations play a crucial role in the decision-making process for EV enthusiasts."

So as I said, this just reaffirms EV are mostly bought by over-educated Coastal and Enviro elites. I think (yes, my opinion) you miss the point about income levels playing into the purchase decision. It's no secret people with advanced degrees have higher income levels than less degreed people. Higher income earners are able to afford more expensive cars and own multiple car fleets. While my original discussion, err argument, is one doesn't need a post graduate degree to perform the simple division of calculating remaining range and distance to the next location.

 

[Old_Norm]

"Ah, so you're just about the game of argument rather than the analysis of the data."

??? This from the guy who has presented no data! Income levels, you never mentioned income levels in the post that started all this, now it's a factor? You lost your way sonny. I asked you to provide any evidence what so ever that EV owners are not more educated that ICE vehicle owners and you have failed to do so. You continue to harp on non related issues and insult EV owners. What's next, Arnold Palmer's kit?

 

[Old_Norm]

Forbes says:

"The past 14 years have seen solid progress in postsecondary attainment, bringing the goal within reach if future gains were to occur at a slightly stronger pace. The percentage of adults in the U. S. between the ages of 25 to 64 with college degrees, certificates or industry-recognized certifications has increased from 38.1% in 2009 to 54.3% in 2021, a gain of more than 16 percentage points. Among adults 25 to 34 years old, 56.3% have attained a quality post-high school credential, a 17.4 percentage point increase since 2009."

For God's sakes. They are only talking about adults 25 to 34 not the US population. The automobile owning public is not limited to people between 24 to 25. And the 54.3% does not refer to college degrees alone. It refers to college degrees, certificates or industry-recognized certifications. And since when did a, "...post-high school credential,..." mean only a Batchelor or higher degree? You are the very definition of grasping at straws.

 

[Mach1E]

Your stats about Batchelor degrees are not correct.
" In the Census Bureau’s most recent 2022 findings, the percentage of people with a bachelor’s degree or higher remained stable from the previous year at around 37.7%." Clear that up and we can discuss further since that fact defeats your whole argument.

My stat was for “working age adults” 25-64. Roughly the same ages of people buying EVs.

Doing our best to try not to cherry pick stats here. Safe to assume children who don’t have a college degree also don’t buy cars.

We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?

I certainly don’t. In 2013? Definitely. So many early adopters buying expensive EVs and mostly in large cities.

But in 2024? The average EV buyer is going to look a whole lot more just like the average car shopper.

And yes, I expect any recent statical data to show the same.

 

[Old_Norm]

My stat was for “working age adults” 25-64. Roughly the same ages of people buying EVs.

Doing our best to try not to cherry pick stats here. Safe to assume children who don’t have a college degree also don’t buy cars.

We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?

I certainly don’t. In 2013? Definitely. So many early adopters buying expensive EVs and mostly in large cities.

But in 2024? The average EV buyer is going to look a whole lot more just like the average car shopper.

And yes, I expect any recent statical data to show the same.

Man, I thought I had at least one honest individual in this discussion.

"My stat was for “working age adults” 25-64. Roughly the same ages of people buying EVs."

No it isn't. This is what you said about the 54% stat:

" If 56% of EV owners have college degrees compared to 54% of EVERYONE having college degrees….. we have all the data we need."

Sigh.

 

[Old_Norm]

"About The Report
The Lumina Foundation is an Indianapolis-based, private foundation focused on helping “policymakers prepare more people for informed citizenship and success in a global economy.” Its Stronger Nation data on population, educational attainment, and college enrollment are drawn primarily from the U.S. Census Bureau American Community Survey, the Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System and Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce."

Apparently the data used by Lumina come from the Census Bureau. Where is your proof that certificates or industry-recognized certifications are not equivalent to a college degree. The report stated the percentage grew from 38% (just above your 37%) to 54% (as noted by Mach1E). So perhaps your number is equivalent in degree veracity content as Lumina's number, but Lumina's number is just more precise regarding its make up.

Cherry picking? You?

It is your responsibility to prove that certificates or industry-recognized certifications are comparable because you have been using the term Batchelor degrees. You never mentioned other certificated and none of the data I've provided mentions other certificates. When you stoop to semantics you've lost your credibility.

 

[Mach1E]

Man, I thought I had at least one honest individual in this discussion.

"My stat was for “working age adults” 25-64. Roughly the same ages of people buying EVs."

No it isn't. This is what you said about the 54% stat:

" If 56% of EV owners have college degrees compared to 54% of EVERYONE having college degrees….. we have all the data we need."

Sigh.

Go back to the first post I posted the stat….. these threads get really long when we have to repeat everything we said each time.

This thing I will repeat though since you didn’t answer:

We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?

 

[Mach1E]

First google AI result when I search “percentage of car shoppers with college degrees.”


According to available data, approximately 57% of car shoppers are estimated to have a college degree, meaning a significant majority of car buyers have completed higher education.

 

[Old_Norm]

First google AI result when I search “percentage of car shoppers with college degrees.”


According to available data, approximately 57% of car shoppers are estimated to have a college degree, meaning a significant majority of car buyers have completed higher education.

Of course we are talking about owners vs shoppers but but why should that bother you?

Go back to the first post I posted the stat….. these threads get really long when we have to repeat everything we said each time.

This thing I will repeat though since you didn’t answer:

We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?

You are simply making stuff up. You said, "My stat was for “working age adults” 25-64. Roughly the same ages of people buying EVs." What you said in your first post was, "% of working age adults in the US with a college degree? 54%"

The working age in the US is 15 to 64. But since you mention adult working age, that would be 18 to 64 not your made up 25 to 64.

What Is Working-Age Population?
"The working-age population is the total population in an area that is considered able and likely to work. It is based on the number of people in a predetermined age range. That age range can vary, but it usually begins with older teenagers and goes into retirement age, such as 18-64 or 15-64."
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/working-age-population.asp

 

[Old_Norm]

Go back to the first post I posted the stat….. these threads get really long when we have to repeat everything we said each time.

This thing I will repeat though since you didn’t answer:

We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?

You said, "We can play the statistics game all day long if you like, but at the end of the day do you really honestly think that EV drivers demographics are really that much different than the general population in 2024?"

First of all, to play the statistics game you have to understand statistics. You don't. You keep harping on the margin of error. " 54% and 56% are going to be well within the margin of error and not statistically significant enough to draw any conclusions. "

There is no way possible to ascertain the margin of error with out a full statistical analysis of the data. You obviously haven't a clue. So tell me, how did you determine the margin of error in this discussion?

And you say, "NRA owners are a small subset of the population." There are more NRA members than there are EV owners in the US. And yet you considered the number of EV owners when arriving at your magical, "margin of error."

Based on the data I provided any reasonable person would conclude that EV owners are better educated than ICE vehicle drivers. I certainly do.

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