Will Ford Support Apple CarPlay Ultra

[Jimrpa]

Wonder if this Early Access Update I got the other day is gearing up for such a thing. I’m all in on Apple. Only own one Android phone because it’s for work.

What MY?

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[garyd9]

What MY?

It's in big letters at the top of the image you replied to.

 

[Jimrpa]

It's in big letters at the top of the image you replied to.

? You’re correct! I really need to pay more attention sometimes ? thanks!

 

[Jimrpa]

I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see Ford updating anything that’s not a subscription based service on our vehicles. I could see it being a standard feature on new model year vehicles though. But for Ford to make the update on already sold vehicles, no matter how easy it might be, nah.

In Ford’s defense, they have provided some enhancements that weren’t part of the original vehicle. For example, the NACS adaptors.

 

[SonicBlue]

Has anyone just said no? No.

 

[Ahlarict]

Running carefully tailored and tightly integrated software experiences on other people's hardware has never been Apple's MO... I suspect the hardware driving the Sync4a experience is closer to an off-brand Raspberry PI than an iPhone 16, so I honestly doubt it's even close to the specs Apple will require for their next gen CarPlay.

This isn't just "screen-casting" some small subset of apps like the old CarPlay, this is Apple providing the primary driver's UI... Automakers will have trust issues, engineers will have conniption fits, and lawyers will rub their hands at the money to be made, etc. Frankly everything I've seen about this next gen CarPlay goes a long way toward explaining why the list of CarPlay-compatible auto manufacturers is shrinking so quick...

 

[Sikkun]

A $20 OBD dongle can steam all the data needed to make dashboards…we are not talking about some amazing compute power required to have speedometer information.

 

[Ahlarict]

A $20 OBD dongle can steam all the data needed to make dashboards…we are not talking about some amazing compute power required to have speedometer information.

I suspect if Apple is taking on the responsibility to display all that data and provide the majority of the UI to operate common functions, they're going to want to certify the whole darn stack: Displays, the system-on-chip, storage, networking, everything. That's the only way they know how to play, frankly.

 

[Sikkun]

I suspect if Apple is taking on the responsibility to display all that data and provide the majority of the UI to operate common functions, they're going to want to certify the whole darn stack: Displays, the system-on-chip, storage, networking, everything. That's the only way they know how to play, frankly.

The reports also state that the manufacturer interface is still there (ultra only works with an iPhone) and can “punch through” the CarPlay UI.

So it’s also possible we are talking about it working more like manufactures make dashes with a standard and Apple is applying styling to them.

 

[dan_meh]

A $20 OBD dongle can steam all the data needed to make dashboards…we are not talking about some amazing compute power required to have speedometer information.

Yes… this is my thought. I would love to see under apple’s hood, so to speak, but if it’s a pretty OBD interface projected back to the car UI, then it’s just pretty phone projection with compute on the phone. Yes, you’d have to address more than one screen and yes, you’d need to resize for each shape of screen, but that’s a solved problem.

I want it to work this way because I can change the suspension on the car but it would be hard to change the chipset. If I can bring a phone, however, to render the speedometer, power gauge, what have you, then I don’t need to change the chipset.

 

[bbulkow]

Car play ultra takes over every pixel of the in car experience.

Climate controls, how speed is is displayed, where the hood latch is.

It seems ios is running the entire interface of the car. This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. For safety critical applications, the hardware and software should be provided by the same company.

I can't imagine this is anyone's idea of a good thing.

Just putting the word ultra on something doesn't make it a good idea

 

[dan_meh]

For safety critical applications, the hardware and software should be provided by the same company.

Maybe… but set ultra aside for a minute. Is it not true that a bunch of tier 1 suppliers make chips with firmware on them and Ford is using Sync to integrate those systems? Like window controllers… Ford isn’t loading the firmware, they’re setting some standards that tier 1 suppliers must meet and then integrating it into their system.

I’m not sure how ultra differs. Ford (or Austin Martin, or any car company) can treat Apple as a teir 1 supplier.

VW, for its part, turned over its CARID disaster to a tier 1 software maker, who had little to do with their hardware.

I do see concerns here, but I’m not sure this is the right one.

 

[bbulkow]

Maybe… but set ultra aside for a minute. Is it not true that a bunch of tier 1 suppliers make chips with firmware on them and Ford is using Sync to integrate those systems? Like window controllers… Ford isn’t loading the firmware, they’re setting some standards that tier 1 suppliers must meet and then integrating it into their system.

I’m not sure how ultra differs. Ford (or Austin Martin, or any car company) can treat Apple as a teir 1 supplier.

VW, for its part, turned over its CARID disaster to a tier 1 software maker, who had little to do with their hardware.

I do see concerns here, but I’m not sure this is the right one.

The difference is who is on the hook. When Ford integrates and brands, ford is on the hook for safety and integration. They choose the suppliers, the do the integration testing of every release and update.

Of course there will be vendors for almost everything.car makers have deep strength in integration and supplier management!

If carplay ultra is a supplier relationship, you wouldnt expect porting to old hardware like our existing maches.

But if apple brands carplay, and updates it on their schedule, you don't tend to get that intensive testing that happens at ford reseach. That's why car play and aa are, today , are basically in a sandbox and don't have control of any car surface. Building a good HAL and test suite even for that isn't simple!

The difficulty of this cobrand approach is basically the difficulty of shiping the windows operating system, with a variety of hardware vendors. Apple tried this before (search star trek, macos for white box intel, was about 95 or 96), and failed. They have never done it successfully, they are to being like ford and being the integrater. The number of companies that have ever done it (sucessfully) is really small. netflix did when they embedded the netflix client in a large number of tvs. It has happened.

The number that have when lives are on the line controlling a machine capable of dealing death.... I can't think of one.

Android auto is probably not open source, like today's car play.

Having apple as a vendor and ford integrate? Apple hasn't ever done that either.

These days, a complex ecosystem vendor approach is successfully done with open source, like google does Android. The idea that apple would open source ( which is what allows co branding and complex control) is unlikely. It's not in apples dna.

So, yeah, if the reports i read of the approach are true, i don't see this as a success, and i might expect a thoughtful ford to back pedal. Even in the face of apple marketing excellence.

Much speculation on my part, but informed by vast industry experience....

 

[Ahlarict]

These days, a complex ecosystem vendor approach is successfully done with open source, like google does Android. The idea that apple would open source ( which is what allows co branding and complex control) is unlikely. It's not in apples dna.

So, yeah, if the reports i read of the approach are true, i don't see this as a success, and i might expect a thoughtful ford to back pedal. Even in the face of apple marketing excellence.

Much speculation on my part, but informed by vast industry experience....

Yup. Apple ain't in the software business, they use software to sell hardware. They've likely misjudged the market this time... I think the reason we've seen a number of OEMs move away from CarPlay is they've seen Apple's roadmap and aren't looking to trade that much cash for that much risk and uncertainty, swanky Apple logo be damned...

 

[medic2442]

Yup. Apple ain't in the software business, they use software to sell hardware. They've likely misjudged the market this time... I think the reason we've seen a number of OEMs move away from CarPlay is they've seen Apple's roadmap and aren't looking to trade that much cash for that much risk and uncertainty, swanky Apple logo be damned...

OEM’s are moving away from CarPlay and Android Auto cause they want to control the UI, sell you subscriptions and collect your data. That’s valuable to OEM’s like GM who have already not supported both platforms.

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