Automation level potential of Mach-e

[Plutoman15]

Tesla claims there current cars are capable of level 5 automation. They certainly have a track record for over selling their tech but have also had a lot of success so far. So with what we know about the Mach-e, here are my questions.

Does the Mache have the sensors necessary for level 5 automation? I realize this is not what they are promising, just wondering what may be possible a few years down the road with OTA updates "IF" Ford develops the software. How high of level can the current Mach-e go?

How do the sensors compare to the sensors in the Model Y?

And one more...any idea if the Mache will show the traffic it is detecting like Tesla's driving visualization?​

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[macchiaz-o]

I don't know what visualizations Mach-E will have, but with regards to your other questions... No, it will not have enough equipment or ever be upgraded to SAE Level 5 automation. (I don't believe existing Teslas can or will be, either.)

Much has been tweeted on the subject today, in reaction to Elon Musk's latest recorded statements on the topic. Here's one tweet for starters, dig into it and the replies for some more.

 

[Billyk24]

Tesla does not yet have level 3 of autonomic driving via recent e-mails between the CEO and the Department of Transportation.

 

[JamieGeek]

Yeah we're a long way away from Level 5.

Every company that has promised something even close to 5 has yet to deliver now.

 

[Plutoman15]

Maybe we don’t know w

Yeah we're a long way away from Level 5.

Every company that has promised something even close to 5 has yet to deliver now.

Maybe we don’t know Enough what level 5 needs for sensors but that is really what I am asking concerning the Mach-e. Does it have the hardware to do level 5? Maybe we are too many years away on the software side for it to matter, meaning more than 3 years away.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Maybe we don’t know w

Maybe we don’t know Enough what level 5 needs for sensors but that is really what I am asking concerning the Mach-e. Does it have the hardware to do level 5? Maybe we are too many years away on the software side for it to matter, meaning more than 3 years away.

No, it does not. For example, other than just one of its front cameras, it does not have any cleaners to clear off obstructed sensors. It also doesn't have enough sensor redundancy. If a sensor stops working properly, a driver MUST take over immediately. Therefore it cannot ever be Level 5.

 

[ab13]

Maybe we don’t know Enough what level 5 needs for sensors but that is really what I am asking concerning the Mach-e. Does it have the hardware to do level 5? Maybe we are too many years away on the software side for it to matter, meaning more than 3 years away.

No it doesn't, and the truth is no one knows how much hardware and software is needed.

When you look at the SAE chart you see it says level 5: "This feature can drive the vehicle under all conditions". That's an idealistic state. Will it really be able to drive in torrential rain, near white out snow conditions on patchy ice, understand the construction work or police officer giving hand signals, etc... That's a bit off from today. Anything that's "Level 5" would have to have a caveat.

https://www.sae.org/binaries/conten.../j3016-levels-of-driving-automation-12-10.jpg

There are companies already doing level 4/5 testing on the streets, dozens of them. Mainly level 4, since it's easier to run the testing. Lyft has done over 50,000 taxi rides in Las Vegas in autonomous vehicles with safety drivers, and Voyage has been doing rides around 2 years in The Villages retirement communities, the largest one having a population of 125,000 and 750 miles of roads.

 

[macchiaz-o]

There are companies already doing level 4/5 testing on the streets, dozens of them. Mainly level 4, since it's easier to run the testing. Lyft has done over 50,000 taxi rides in Las Vegas in autonomous vehicles with safety drivers, and Voyage has been doing rides around 2 years in The Villages retirement communities, the largest one having a population of 125,000 and 750 miles of roads.

The examples you provide are Level 3 automation, right? There are safety drivers or some other form of human supervision, and they are able to take over control when needed.

The driverless Waymo taxis in Chandler, Arizona are probably considered Level 4. Waymo claims they do not take over control remotely.

Based on the chart you shared, if driverless Waymo taxis can't operate during a haboob, then I guess it would mean that they are level 4 and not level 5. (I don't know whether or not they pull over and turn off lights during severe dust storms, but that is what drivers are supposed to do; I just picked it as a local example.)

 

[ab13]

The examples you provide are Level 3 automation, right? There are safety drivers or some other form of human supervision, and they are able to take over control when needed.

Those safety drivers are not asked to take over, so it's level 4. They take over if the system doesn't appear to work correctly. Such as if it tries to drive the wrong way on a one way street or whatever. That's why all the systems are still under test.

The driverless Waymo taxis in Chandler, Arizona are probably considered Level 4. Waymo claims they do not take over control remotely.

Based on the chart you shared, if driverless Waymo taxis can't operate during a haboob, then I guess it would mean that they are level 4 and not level 5. (I don't know whether or not they pull over and turn off lights during severe dust storms, but that is what drivers are supposed to do; I just picked it as a local example.)

That's why I see the level 5 as an ideal or perfect state, which is for all practical purposes not possible anytime soon. Kind of like something being 100% efficient, in the real world those things are probably 99.99% efficient.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Tesla claims there current cars are capable of level 5 automation. They certainly have a track record for over selling their tech but have also had a lot of success so far. So with what we know about the Mach-e, here are my questions.

Does the Mache have the sensors necessary for level 5 automation? I realize this is not what they are promising, just wondering what may be possible a few years down the road with OTA updates "IF" Ford develops the software. How high of level can the current Mach-e go?

How do the sensors compare to the sensors in the Model Y?

And one more...any idea if the Mache will show the traffic it is detecting like Tesla's driving visualization?

Where are the Lidars on the Tesla's? Google and others are working on this too but they have these arrays of Lidar that makes the car look's like a military vehicle.

 

[Thevanin]

Tesla's whole level 5 strategy revolves around not using lidar. Musk has said several times that they're too heavy/expensive and not worth it (paraphrasing). Their strategy primary revolves around using radar/cameras/ultrasonic inputs.

 

[JamieGeek]

Here is a good article from last year giving the state of Lidar (as of then). It is a bit of a deep dive into each companies method (note: not all of them have a spinning head).

If you're curious... They are getting cheaper, and smaller.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Here is a good article from last year giving the state of Lidar (as of then). It is a bit of a deep dive into each companies method (note: not all of them have a spinning head).

If you're curious... They are getting cheaper, and smaller.

I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked!

 

[Plutoman15]

So to what level will the mache be able to achieve? Level 3? Level 4?
sounds like level 5 is out.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

The cliff notes version of why level 5 isn’t happening soon.

https://www.just-auto.com/comment/level-5-fully-self-driving-cars-not-due-anytime-soon_id196671.aspx

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