Bad PR article for Ford v Tesla

[Mach-Lee]

Maybe... but this is insane... The charge station needs to work regardless of the order of events.

I think that's hard to do technically, as soon as you plug in the car starts a timed handshake process, which will fail if the station isn't authorized yet. I haven't dived into the CCS charging standard, but I don't think there's a way for the station to say "Start Over" to the car once it's authorized late, so it has to be unplugged and replugged to start the handshake again. That's one big downfall they missed when writing the CCS standard.

Kempower actually has a workaround for this, their stations will start charging as soon as plugged in even if not authorized, but the charge rate will be limited to something ridiculously slow like 5 kW. Then when the station is authorized, it will ramp up to full power which can be done on the fly without replugging.

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[Mirak]

Seriously? I’m not blaming anyone, I’m saying he didn’t exhaust all his options. Why not charge for a few hours on L2? Perfectly reasonable suggestion. I would have. Go get some lunch. But he didn’t even try, which is the definition of “giving up”. Did he ask the Ford dealer for help? Dunno, but it doesn’t sound like it. He was rightfully frustrated, and said F* this, I’m out. His response was dramatic - he essentially threw up his arms and abandoned his truck. That’s got an element of drama to it.

We made the same point - is it should not be this hard. But it can be, and you need to be prepared. I don’t think he was. When I road trip I have Plan A and B and C. I get that there are a lot of people who buy an EV and just think they can charge it like an ICE. Fair assumption. But we all know right now that can be a poor assumption.

Ironically you’ve suggested the “mistake” he made was going to a smaller town with fewer options, which is victim blaming, no? Why was that a mistake? He should have been just fine doing what he did, as DCFC should just work. But you assume had he chosen a different route, with more options, he would have been fine, which is actually sound advice, given by someone who knows shit can go sideways in a hurry with an EV right now. And I suggested had he tried a last-resort L2 charger he would have also been fine, and could have continued on. But somehow L2 is an unreasonable suggestion. I think if I took a poll the vast majority of us here would have rocked up to the ChargePoint L2 and waited it out. Hell there are plenty of stories on this forum about people spending an extra night in a hotel to use an L2 so they could continue on.

It isn't victim blaming to say that he probably made a mistake. People who are new to EV public charging make mistakes. The problem is that it shouldn't be this hard to plan a route, and mistakes shouldn't have such catastrophic consequences.

The problem I have with what you said, and what you just reiterated above, is how blithely you suggest that L2 was a viable option. "Why not charge for a few hours on L2? Perfectly reasonable suggestion. I would have. Go get some lunch." Charging for a couple hours just to limp to another charger might seem "viable" to you - but most normal people would view that as insane. If I had my family in tow I would have been just like this guy: "eff this, I'm renting a damned car."

 

[Blue highway]

I think that's hard to do technically, as soon as you plug in the car starts a timed handshake process, which will fail if the station isn't authorized yet. I haven't dived into the CCS charging standard, but I don't think there's a way for the station to say "Start Over" to the car once it's authorized late, so it has to be unplugged and replugged to start the handshake again. That's one big downfall they missed when writing the CCS standard.

Kempower actually has a workaround for this, their stations will start charging as soon as plugged in even if not authorized, but the charge rate will be limited to something ridiculously slow like 5 kW. Then when the station is authorized, it will ramp up to full power which can be done on the fly without replugging.

There is a natural order of events... but (a lot) chargers don't have a big sticker that tells you this. If the order of events matter... then in 2 inch tall words they need to tell users how to charge ...step 1, step 2 etc.

When we road trip, I work the DCFC stations... If my wife was on a road trip alone, it needs to just work regardless of the order of events. She has zero interest in learning these nuances. If she were stuck at a charger that would be the end of the MME. It would gone... replaced with an ICE car.

I think she is more representative of regular car buyers than I am.

 

[MellowJohnny]

It isn't victim blaming to say that he probably made a mistake. People who are new to EV public charging make mistakes. The problem is that it shouldn't be this hard to plan a route, and mistakes shouldn't have such catastrophic consequences.

The problem I have with what you said, and what you just reiterated above, is how blithely you suggest that L2 was a viable option. "Why not charge for a few hours on L2? Perfectly reasonable suggestion. I would have. Go get some lunch." Charging for a couple hours just to limp to another charger might seem "viable" to you - but most normal people would view that as insane. If I had my family in tow I would have been just like this guy: "eff this, I'm renting a damned car."

Just because you wouldn’t have made the same choice as I would doesn’t make my suggestion “insane”. If it does, lots of us here must be insane. Just because he had his kids with charging on L2 is an “insane” suggestion? I would have done it and figured out how to kill a few hours with my kids. I’m already on holiday, no issue.

In fact I’ll bet he spent more time waiting for a flatbed tow truck, getting towed to Ford, waiting around at Ford, & getting a rental car, unpacking the F-150, packing the rental etc than he would have charging on L2. I’ll bet it was 3 hours before he was in his rental.

Anyway, none of it matters, we are all playing armchair quarterback. All I said was I would have made different choices, that doesn’t make my choices “insane”.

 

[96 Mystic 22 Mach-E]

Having charged my Lightning at a Magic Dock that didn't have my VIN data, I can assure you charging on Superchargers doesn't require software on the vehicle side. It does require software on the charger side.

They can definitely get this going faster if charging uses the Tesla app like it does now on Magic Dock stations. Plug & Charge will take more work. I'd rather get access sooner than to wait until everything is set up for P&C.

Yeah the fact that they can make the magic dock work without any software to the CCS car, shows that they could easily put out an adapter that would work on all CCS cars. That would be the quickest and easiest solution. And I'd gladly pay two or $300 for one.

 

[Mirak]

Just because you wouldn’t have made the same choice as I would doesn’t make my suggestion “insane”. If it does, lots of us here must be insane. Just because he had his kids with charging on L2 is an “insane” suggestion? I would have done it and figured out how to kill a few hours with my kids. I’m already on holiday, no issue.

In fact I’ll bet he spent more time waiting for a flatbed tow truck, getting towed to Ford, waiting around at Ford, & getting a rental car, unpacking the F-150, packing the rental etc than he would have charging on L2. I’ll bet it was 3 hours before he was in his rental.

Anyway, none of it matters, we are all playing armchair quarterback. All I said was I would have made different choices, that doesn’t make my choices “insane”.

That’s fair. I agree with most of what you are saying, and “insane” was a poor word choice. But I’m pretty sure the folks on this board are not representative of the general population LOL.

 

[Shundi]

I think this is an example of a guy who was in over his head from the beginning. Before I bought my Mach-E I was doing research for MONTHS. I learned about my charging options, downloaded multiple apps, and waited months before doing my first 300+ mile road trip.

It seems he was naive and underestimated what the ownership would be like. He complained about having to get a home charger which cost him $6000 in upgrade costs? Like that's some thing you figure out PREBUY. And why would you need a charger both at home and at work? If you have a decent LV2, your car is fully charged in one night? His story screams of a smear job by oil companies, but I'm not that big of a conspiracy buff.

It also looks like he didn't have any experience in road trip planning because no one in their right mind would go into ND if they were looking for access to charging stations. The worst thing about this story? He didn't live closer to me so I could have taken that lightning off his hands. . .. Not everyone can be an early adopter...

 

[Say Watt]

If you could only have one; which do you prefer?

Difficult question to answer. They each have niche attributes.

The Kia GT-Line is the traditional Grand Touring. Smooth, quiet, and comfy for long trips. 0 to 60 in 4.5 - and more than once. Cornering is decent. (The newer Kia GT is 0 to 60 in 3.5 and has electronic suspension in the style of Magnaride - obscene horsepower and low range.)
Vented/ heated seats, a sunroof that opens, rapid charging (when EA cooperates), and better range efficiency even with a smaller battery. Very reliable and a pro-active, caring dealer.

The GTPE is more the traditional “muscle car”. 0 to 60 in “let’s not go there”. Corners like a golfball in a drainpipe with the Magnaride - but a harsher ride. More interior room. Better headlights. Sexier wheels. It is the vehicle that initiates the most inquiries. The dealer sucks pond water and don’t get me started on Ford support.

I was explaining the differences to a friend and he said, “It’s like those two girls you knew in college. One you you wanted to date and the other you wanted to marry.”

Ask me again if the Rivian R1S ever comes through. One goes then.

 

[Anthropod]

$12,000 us for chargers?
Found another article that showed a picture of the ford 80 amp charger with some of its plastic on it. Ok if he got two…. $2700 said he had to upgrade his panel. In the fox business article, I like how they tied in his wreck into why EVs suck.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6932074

 

[MachSpeed]

Sense Farley has became CEO Ford has went to hell. He doesn't care about quality control the flagship EVs the Mach E and the Lighting continually have problems and under perform.

 

[Mrn]

Sense Farley has became CEO Ford has went to hell. He doesn't care about quality control the flagship EVs the Mach E and the Lighting continually have problems and under perform.

Really?

 

[KevinS]

Sense Farley has became CEO Ford has went to hell. He doesn't care about quality control the flagship EVs the Mach E and the Lighting continually have problems and under perform.

** checks list of vehicles **

Lemee guess... the Mach-E is not a Mustang, either.

 

[MachSpeed]

** checks list of vehicles **

Lemee guess... the Mach-E is not a Mustang, either.

The Mach E is certainly a Mustang but with all its problems its not a car I want.

 

[MachSpeed]

Really?

Eyes closed

 

[Steady Eddie]

Well the adoption includes the adapter. Tesla can't "Just" sell an adapter, both the CCS vehicle and the Supercharger need to be able to communicate, which is why we won't get our adapters until at least early 2024, and even if the adapter is available, will rely on Ford pushing the communication software to the existing MMEs, and Tesla loading the VIN data for all the Ford vehicles so it can handle billing and plug and charge. So it still needs to be adopted, by both Ford and Tesla in this case, which is what I was referring to.

Kyle Conner had an interview with Sandy Monroe in which he said it was only the version 3 or 4 super chargers that would work with current CCS cars because of some communication differences. I haven’t found anything further on that issue.

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