Interesting read: Ford Corp versus Tesla Corp

[Deleted member 16048]

My biggest disappointment in the EV world was when Tesla was taken over by Musk. I was so excited about the company and then... Meh.

I still hope it can survive or that it becomes a subsidiary of a real car manufacturer. And I will celebrate when Musk is no longer associated with the company.

I do agree, though I think for the company to have grown, they needed the influence that Musk brought them. They got noticed and treated seriously but now I think it's time for new leadership to keep them moving in the right direction for their staff, customer and mission.

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[HuntingPudel]

A couple of former co-workers from back when I was in tech went to work for Brand T. They did not have favorable opinions on the working conditions. Since I didn't work there, I can't say this is true, but I have no reeason to doubt at least one of them because he was a serious Brand T fan boy before going to work there. ?‍?

Regarding frunk shrimp, I can't do that to my car. I'm deathly allergic to even the airborne particles from them when they're cooked, so I could never again chill in my frunk if someone cooled shrimp in my frunk. #FrunkPuppy ????

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I do agree, though I think for the company to have grown, they needed the influence that Musk brought them. They got noticed and treated seriously but now I think it's time for new leadership to keep them moving in the right direction for their staff, customer and mission.

People in that kind of funding realm do seem to be impressed with bluster and wild promises.

 

[ARK]

How's this hit piece any different from anything that's written on Jalopnik or other Left leaning rag?

I keep hearing that Tesla is doom to fail, that Elon is alienating everyone. And yet they keep doubling their volume year over year. The problem is that people see tesla as only a car company, but in reality they are a software and electric infrastructure company. They're aiming to be the biggest "gas" station company, they provide battery and solar power on an industrial scale. Their FSD is not there yet, but they are so far ahead of what's commercially available.

I think most magazine dislike Tesla, because 1) They don't spend money on advertising, and sending these writers to all expense paid trips to review their cars. 2) Most writers are left leaning and they disagree with Musk politically.

I don’t think he said anywhere in his article that Tesla is doomed to fail.

I think his point was that Tesla’s product is a bit more meh than people believe and that actually, it’s run like a pretty standard corporation.

He goes on to praise Ford for how Ford has been doing things recently.

This sentiment isn’t unique to this guy or left leaning publications. The Wall Street Journal ran a similar piece in January - What if Tesla Is…Just a Car Company?

EDIT: The subtitle from the WSJ article, “Tesla’s aura as an elite tech disrupter dims as EV competitors multiply and improve their offerings”

 

[DreamU]

And in terms of people who lost 13 k due to the price drop, it's up to them if they trust Tesla again

Your comment about trust made me think of South Koreans. Financially being able to afford a home is out of reach for many and so they took to investing in Tesla to fulfill their financial dreams. As someone who went through the 2008 crash I have empathy for the South Koreans who saw their investment crash in 2022/Q4. I need not have been concerned. South Koreans have capitalized on the stock price decline of late and invested another 2.8 billion in Tesla. It would seem they still trust his business accumen.

 

[timbop]

I don't think general public cares too much about a company ethos, as long as the product is good.

I might be the exception, but I do. I was very much pro-Tesla, fully intent on getting a model 3 - until I learned more. I had read the book about him in 2019, and I know it was intentionally unflattering but it became clear in 2020 that he was exactly the guy portrayed in the book. His behavior regarding his employees during the early days of the pandemic were eye-opening. I've also paid a lot more attention to the continuous stream of hyperbole at Tesla's "announcement days" - Musk would have been good at selling snake oil as a traveling salesman in the old west.

By contrast Ford actually shifted to making respirators with the limited staff they had in those early days. Ford took the financial hit on plant closures and then ramped them back up slowly as they developed legitimate attempts to keep their workers from getting sick.

 

[timbop]

Your comment about trust made me think of South Koreans. Financially being able to afford a home is out of reach for many and so they took to investing in Tesla to fulfill their financial dreams. As someone who went through the 2008 crash I have empathy for the South Koreans who saw their investment crash in 2022/Q4. I need not have been concerned. South Koreans have capitalized on the stock price decline of late and invested another 2.8 billion in Tesla. It would seem they still trust his business accumen.

Lots of people are avid scientologists, too.

 

[woody]

We love to bash Tesla and GM. Why?

Musk is and has been Tesla's greatest asset : manipulates the media and gets free advertising, a multi $billion saving; he was able to raise large sums of cash which got and keeps the ball rolling. Granted he is not a business manager , but he appears to be remedying that of late.

Tesla's P/E is 58.86 - due to its high stock price. But the stock price has remained relatively high, comparatively stable, and most likely will not tank.
Ford's P/E is 6.26 - due to its low stock price.

Lets look at real figures:
Tesla has a net cash position on its balance sheet.
Tesla makes more money than either Ford or GM.
Tesla's market capitalization is 10X higher than Ford.
Ford debt is $89B and increasing
Tesla debt is $9.5B and decreasing

Tesla earned $12.6B in 2022
GM earned $4.9B in 2022
Ford earned $5.7B in 2022

Ford's advertising expenditures are the highest out there, nearly $2B/yr. in the USA alone, and per vehicle sold in the industry. Ford uses its influence over the media to cover up failings, exs.: MME HVBJB, numerous unending software problems, Lightning battery failure and production stop.
Tesla spends $0.0 on ads

Tesla does address its quality and software problems w/ no attempt to hide them - perhaps not as timely as desired, but certainly much better than Ford, which has no legitimate excuse.
Tesla created demand.
Ford is unable to supply vehicles in a timely manner and would not be able to meet demand should one occur.

Ford has a huge and expensive dealership problem. Tesla has none.
Ford employs 25% more people to do the same job as other manufacturers. It may be more "flexible" at Ford, but that is no way to manage any business.

Ford is years behind in the EV market, losing more ground daily.

Tesla, GM will introduce affordable EVs before Ford even thinks about them.

And of course there is China: years ahead of anyone, which leaves a bleak, at best, future for Ford, unless the Chinese take over what is left of Ford for some reason.

It is highly unlikely that Ford will be able to salvage the company. No government bailouts on the horizon this time. I suppose it might be possible, but....

I would really, really like to see Ford succeed, but that is currently unrealistic.

 

[atomdeathstroke]

How's this hit piece any different from anything that's written on Jalopnik or other Left leaning rag?

I keep hearing that Tesla is doom to fail, that Elon is alienating everyone. And yet they keep doubling their volume year over year. The problem is that people see tesla as only a car company, but in reality they are a software and electric infrastructure company. They're aiming to be the biggest "gas" station company, they provide battery and solar power on an industrial scale. Their FSD is not there yet, but they are so far ahead of what's commercially available.

I think most magazine dislike Tesla, because 1) They don't spend money on advertising, and sending these writers to all expense paid trips to review their cars. 2) Most writers are left leaning and they disagree with Musk politically.

Lol 100%

also as someone that does manufacturing at a high level, people are incredibly clueless to how far ahead Tesla actually is. It’s not just the software, it’s the entire package. Years ahead. When you have Toyota saying the model 3 is a work of art you know ICE industry is really not doing well.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I might be the exception, but I do. I was very much pro-Tesla, fully intent on getting a model 3 - until I learned more. I had read the book about him in 2019, and I know it was intentionally unflattering but it became clear in 2020 that he was exactly the guy portrayed in the book. His behavior regarding his employees during the early days of the pandemic were eye-opening. I've also paid a lot more attention to the continuous stream of hyperbole at Tesla's "announcement days" - Musk would have been good at selling snake oil as a traveling salesman in the old west.

By contrast Ford actually shifted to making respirators with the limited staff they had in those early days. Ford took the financial hit on plant closures and then ramped them back up slowly as they developed legitimate attempts to keep their workers from getting sick.

You are definitely the exception.

Exhibit one: Apple when Steve Job was alive. By any standards, Job was an absolute Arse (he once fired one of his engineered while introducing the iPhone to the world. Class act . People don't care about whose running the place as long as the product is good.

Exhibit two: Any top chefs (i.e. Gordon Ramsey)

At the end of the day, people are selfish. They want a good production. They don't want or care how the sausage is made.

and by the way, all those social distance measures and wearing mask in public has been shown to be ineffective at halting the spread of Covid.

 

[Rutherfordb]

I dunno.

This year I deleted my Twitter account and purchased a Mach-e. Those were product choice decisions. I follow what SpaceX is doing because it is important, and I have swooned over NASA since I first understood what NASA is. I root for them both.

I am no fan of the Musk ethos, and he seems to have no real care for his fellow human, but, meanwhile, yessireebub I am tremendously appreciating this Mach-e in a way that I don't think I would a Tesla Model [s3xy] ?

 

[EVS]

I do agree, though I think for the company to have grown, they needed the influence that Musk brought them. They got noticed and treated seriously but now I think it's time for new leadership to keep them moving in the right direction for their staff, customer and mission.

It's kinda like the Theranos of cars. Lie a lot and get those lies repeated by stock market pimps (hello Cathie Wood, Dan Ives, Adam Jonas) to pump the stock price. Except that Musk got too big to jail and Trump protected him.

The problem is bigger than just changing the CEO, as billions of revenue recognized are for the fraudulent full self driving software. Musk himself said that the company is not worth much without the FSD. The company can't just change the lying fraudster CEO to some honest one.

As for public opinion about Tesla, it's changing slowly one customer at a time.
At one point, Tesla stock bulls were like"There are so many millionaries. They will all buy a Tesla Model S". NowTesla has to keep slashing prices to stay anywhere close to the 50% yoy growth target.

https://www.techspot.com/news/97563-steve-wozniak-slams-dishonest-elon-musk-tesla-robbing.html
"Steve Wozniak slams "dishonest" Elon Musk and Tesla, says they robbed him and his family"

 

[Ghost Ryder]

It's kinda like the Theranos of cars. Lie a lot and get those lies l repeated by stock market pimps (hello Cathie Wood, Dan Ives, Adam Jonas) to pump the stock price. Except that Musk got too big to jail and Trump protected him.

The problem is bigger than just changing the CEO, as billions of revenue recognized are for the fraudulent full self driving software. Musk himself said that the company is not worth much without the FSD. The company can't just change the lying fraudster CEO to some honest one.

As for public opinion about Tesla, it's changing slowly one customer at a time.
At one point, Tesla stock bulls were like"There are so many millionaries. They will all buy a Tesla Model S". NowTesla has to keep slashing prices to stay anywhere close to the 50% yoy growth target.

https://www.techspot.com/news/97563-steve-wozniak-slams-dishonest-elon-musk-tesla-robbing.html
"Steve Wozniak slams "dishonest" Elon Musk and Tesla, says they robbed him and his family"

Before reading that article, I assumed that Wozniak invested a huge amount of money into tesla, and Musk reneged on their agreement. Turns out the Woz bought a model S for 50k and expected FSD that has yet to come to fruition.

The moral of the story is that you buy software base on what it can do today and not what is promised.

I don't understand why anyone would buy FSD if they are not happy with what it is capable of currently. You can always buy FSD later. Better yet, you can pay a month fee to use the Full FSD suite and if not happy, then cancel.

 

[Deleted member 16048]

Before reading that article, I assumed that Wozniak invested a huge amount of money into tesla, and Musk reneged on their agreement. Turns out the Woz bought a model S for 50k and expected FSD that has yet to come to fruition.

The moral of the story is that you buy software base on what it can do today and not what is promised.

I don't understand why anyone would buy FSD if they are not happy with what it is capable of currently. You can always buy FSD later. Better yet, you can pay a month fee to use the Full FSD suite and if not happy, then cancel.

The moral is to not promise something you can't deliver on time. It's never a good idea to promise anything like that. Tesla makes these promises and exaggerated claims all the time. Example, Tesla Semi... Trust is key in any relationship including those with companies, if you fail to deliver on you word, trust is broken quickly.

Personally I ordered a model 3 and at the time the estimate was 3-4 month wait. 1 ½ years later I still didn't have one. Yes, it's an estimate, but it was grossly inaccurate. When they know it isn't correct or that it would change that drastically, that would be considered deception. That experience alone soured my opinion of the company and how they handle themselves. Even though I knew they had a track record for grossly inaccurate estimates. Think of how someone who doesn't follow Tesla would feel without knowing how they are. (Like general public and not a fanboy.)

In regards to FSD. The name itself implies it has more capabilities than it has right now. That alone is deception. Frankly they should call it what it currently qualifies as, then when it can fulfill its promise then change the name. I think it will get there someday, but we are several years away from that yet and it's better for the company to be honest with people about it and stop marketing it as something that it isn't currently. It's a dishonest practice.

 

[nmope]

The art kicks ass. The rest is trash. The vast majority of this article is just a left-leaning journo whining about Elon Musk. He loved Tesla until Musk bought his Twitter plaything and threatened to curb censorship.

To be clear, I don’t want to start a political debate, but I am simply pointing out that this article is just political sour grapes.

And speaking of sour grapes, I bought some today from the grocery store. They look perfectly normal, but they are not. Are you supposed to taste test them before buying?

Agree that the art is the best part of the article. I test the fruit from time to time.

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