Comparing DCFC costs to gas prices

[Mach1E]

Agree with the first 2 paragraphs, but not sure about the 2nd. People having to carry their own mobile EVSEs introduces new problems. And separate meters for each outlet adds cost. Also, it makes them each a dedicated circuit that doesn't take advantage of load-sharing to reduce costs.

I think I would simply use physical security for the parking area (which often already exists) to limit it to residents only. Then just install a bunch of cheap (relatively) home EVSEs, like Grizzl-E Duos that can split power. Most people don't really need 6 kW all night anyway. 3 kW is usually plenty. That's ~100 miles in most EVs. Then just charge your renters $30/mo or something for access to them, rather than adding the expensive of individual metering.

In places where individual EVSEs and metering really are necessary, the UK example is a good one... the EVSE is installed at the parking space, but you bring your own cord.

Lots of ways to get to the same result-

Cheapest way to charge at home.

With just outlets, you don’t need individual meters if electricity is included in your rent.

With just outlets, you don’t need to buy extra chargers as everyone already has their own.

But either way, we are both thinking the same thing- keep it cheap and at home. ?

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[PedroDaGr8]

We also need more level 1 and 2 chargers in residential areas where people aren't able to have home charging (i.e. apartments). And rideshare and car rental places need to build out their own charging infrastructure to support their cars and drivers.

I live in a small apartment complex (privately owned, 10 units) with no covered parking. As such, no easy way to charge at my place even though

Luckily, I live a short walk from one of the free local government-installed L2 charger. It's nothing special, a single ChargePoint stanchion with two plugs which share only 6.1kW but due to the plethora of condos/apartments/etc. in the area, this charger has a near 100% usage rate. This charger, along with the other free local government-installed (there's about half a dozen within a couple miles) and free shopping center installed ones mean I almost never need to DCFC outside of very rare circumstances.

Edit: Speaking about shopping center free chargers, several shopping centers around here (mostly Safeway grocery stores) have installed what amount to small video billboards with integrated 8kW L2 chargers. The ads run on these billboards offset the costs of installatiin and power.

 

[Teslaeata]

You guys are missing the point. It’s not what you pay for the energy, you are saving the world.?

Absolutely, bag on ?

I didn’t go EV & air source heat pump for convenience or cost saving, we now barely burn any fossil fuel at home or in business.

It’s all very well whinging about how inconvenient this technology is and how ICE vehicles are preferred for some nostalgic requirement for yesteryear’s technology because of the sound, the smell etc etc

Just how convenient is burning and flooding the planet at several times each year??‍

Those who say “uuuugggghhhh, I don’t believe in EV technology and won’t change their heating for all the laim excuses they give, and China & India’s Industrial Revolution the West’s already gone through mean our grandchildren will probably perish in the consequent effects of our actions since the mid 1800s and the coming few years.

Do nothing and we’re complicit?

Just saying.

Over to the trolls ?

 

[Mach1E]

Absolutely, bag on ?

I didn’t go EV & air source heat pump for convenience or cost saving, we now barely burn any fossil fuel at home or in business.

It’s all very well whinging about how inconvenient this technology is and how ICE vehicles are preferred for some nostalgic requirement for yesteryear’s technology because of the sound, the smell etc etc

Just how convenient is burning and flooding the planet at several times each year??‍

Those who say “uuuugggghhhh, I don’t believe in EV technology and won’t change their heating for all the laim excuses they give, and China & India’s Industrial Revolution the West’s already gone through mean our grandchildren will probably perish in the consequent effects of our actions since the mid 1800s and the coming few years.

Do nothing and we’re complicit?

Just saying.

Over to the trolls ?

The planet burned and flooded well before we started driving cars and will continue to regardless of what we drive.

Why do environmentalists always have to throw in these hyperbole statements all the time? Totally removes credibility from the argument.

Yes, less environmental impact is good. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that it’ll make any measurable difference in the frequency of fires and floods based on the car you drive. ?‍

Now will your community have less smell, noise, and smog? Absolutely! Stick with those arguments and more people will actually listen!

 

[Teslaeata]

The planet burned and flooded well before we started driving cars and will continue to regardless of what we drive.

Why do environmentalists always have to throw in these hyperbole statements all the time? Totally removes credibility from the argument.

Yes, less environmental impact is good. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that it’ll make any measurable difference in the frequency of fires and floods based on the car you drive. ?‍

Now will your community have less smell, noise, and smog? Absolutely! Stick with those arguments and more people will actually listen!

Oh, f**k it then, I’ll buy an ICE car and reinstall oil heating, I’m 62 and dead soon, burn, baby, burn.

 

[Mach1E]

Oh, f**k it then, I’ll buy an ICE car and reinstall oil heating, I’m 62 and dead soon, burn, baby, burn.

Cool, more hyperbole. ?

 

[Teslaeata]

Cool, more hyperbole. ?

Too much hyperbollicks?

 

[PedroDaGr8]

Can we keep the discussion on topic? We don't need another political dick-waving contest that gets the thread locked.

 

[dbsb3233]

I live in a small apartment complex (privately owned, 10 units) with no covered parking. As such, no easy way to charge at my place even though

Luckily, I live a short walk from one of the free local government-installed L2 charger. It's nothing special, a single ChargePoint stanchion with two plugs which share only 6.1kW but due to the plethora of condos/apartments/etc. in the area, this charger has a near 100% usage rate. This charger, along with the other free local government-installed (there's about half a dozen within a couple miles) and free shopping center installed ones mean I almost never need to DCFC outside of very rare circumstances.

Edit: Speaking about shopping center free chargers, several shopping centers around here (mostly Safeway grocery stores) have installed what amount to small video billboards with integrated 8kW L2 chargers. The ads run on these billboards offset the costs of installatiin and power.

Some people will put up with scavenging for L2 like that, but not most. If that remains the norm for apartment residents, most people will just stick with ICE.

I've done the same at hotels or other destinations during road trips - see an L2 charger on PlugShare that's a block away and hope that I can get on it (and that it's working) for the night. But that's a terrible paradigm, playing musical chairs scavenging for L2. It also feels a bit like stealing too, depending on who the L2 is intended for, anyway.

We've gotta get L2 into the places residents regularly park at night for this to really work.

 

[mkhuffman]

I live in a small apartment complex (privately owned, 10 units) with no covered parking. As such, no easy way to charge at my place even though

Luckily, I live a short walk from one of the free local government-installed L2 charger. It's nothing special, a single ChargePoint stanchion with two plugs which share only 6.1kW but due to the plethora of condos/apartments/etc. in the area, this charger has a near 100% usage rate. This charger, along with the other free local government-installed (there's about half a dozen within a couple miles) and free shopping center installed ones mean I almost never need to DCFC outside of very rare circumstances.

Edit: Speaking about shopping center free chargers, several shopping centers around here (mostly Safeway grocery stores) have installed what amount to small video billboards with integrated 8kW L2 chargers. The ads run on these billboards offset the costs of installatiin and power.

I consider using a "free" charger that is provided by a private business stealing unless you are usung the business and paying for their services/products while charging. If you park your car there to get a free charge and never use the business, it is theft.

The government provided ones are a different story because they are likely put there for anyone to use. Except for maybe the ones on school property, which are probably intended for students and faculty, not freeloaders who live nearby.

 

[IMDIDOC]

Many people miss the loss part. They look at what the vehicle says, i.e. 3 miles per kilowatt hour, and don't realize that when they charge at home and other chargers, they lose from the wall to the vehicle, yet pay for it. When they charge with DC fast charging they pay for the net, so apples and oranges.

absolutely. For more exact cost, you need a watt meter before the charging unit.

My electric rate varies and the cold weather requires more juice. My cost per mile has varied from 4.7 cents to last month's of 6.7 cents per mile.

I put this inline. DROK AC Power Meter, AC 80-300V 100A Voltage Current Color LCD Display Panel, Digital Voltmeter Ammeter Watt Active Power Energy Battery Monitor Multimeter Volt Amp Meter with Current Transformer CT: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

 

[Opa]

If those chargers are run by a 3rd party, they aren’t the solution either- too expensive.

Apartments and condos need access to charge “at home” at regular electric rates.

We don’t need chargers, we just need electrical outlets. Solution- assigned parking spots with outlets in a lock box. Electricity attached to your own meter or just included with rent.

we are fortunate and live in a ground floor apartment that allows us to run an extension cord from our porch to our MMEGT, all we had to do was add a waterproof contain for the extension, cord and charger, and we were good to go.

OTOH, even though we are not, but 25 feet away from our circuit box, the apartment complex wants to charge us over $2000 for a 50 amp plug for level two charging ?

I guess the good news is sometime this year. They are supposed to have public DC fast charging in the parking lot by the gym and swimming pool in our apartment complex.

 

[Teslaeata]

we are fortunate and live in a ground floor apartment that allows us to run an extension cord from our porch to our MMEGT, all we had to do was add a waterproof contain for the extension, cord and charger, and we were good to go.

OTOH, even though we are not, but 25 feet away from our circuit box, the apartment complex wants to charge us over $2000 for a 50 amp plug for level two charging ?

I guess the good news is sometime this year. They are supposed to have public DC fast charging in the parking lot by the gym and swimming pool in our apartment complex.

Keep the faith?

 

[Opa]

The planet burned and flooded well before we started driving cars and will continue to regardless of what we drive.

Why do environmentalists always have to throw in these hyperbole statements all the time? Totally removes credibility from the argument.

Yes, less environmental impact is good. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that it’ll make any measurable difference in the frequency of fires and floods based on the car you drive. ?‍

Now will your community have less smell, noise, and smog? Absolutely! Stick with those arguments and more people will actually listen!

You do what you can do, within your economic capabilities, to reduce your carbon footprint and impact on the environment. So yes, driving an EV helps, so does solar power and wind power.

My suggestion to you dear friend is to stop finding excuses, for why we shouldn’t change and simply change for the betterment of the world even if it is minuscule, you’ve done your part.

 

[thekat03]

I live in a small apartment complex (privately owned, 10 units) with no covered parking. As such, no easy way to charge at my place even though

Luckily, I live a short walk from one of the free local government-installed L2 charger. It's nothing special, a single ChargePoint stanchion with two plugs which share only 6.1kW but due to the plethora of condos/apartments/etc. in the area, this charger has a near 100% usage rate. This charger, along with the other free local government-installed (there's about half a dozen within a couple miles) and free shopping center installed ones mean I almost never need to DCFC outside of very rare circumstances.

These government installed ones probably cannot remain free and reliable forever, but if they can be priced reasonably to cover cost of electricity and maintenance and be cheaper than DCFC, that will likely be enough for a lot of people who cannot charge at home.

The shopping center ones can potentially recoup costs through sales, so may remain free longer. I think the LL Bean ones at their flagship store helped convince my family to get an LL Bean credit card and shop there more often. If too many people use free shopping center chargers without patronizing the stores, it will become less likely they will remain free, however.

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