Congestion Fee

[babgvant]

If we have to ration resources this early into EV adoption, it’s a serious problem.

Rationing should be a temporary emergency fix, not a permanent solution.

Congestion fees that work like this are a way for operators to capture that lost revenue and provide an incentive for people to engage in better behaviors.

Charging your car over 80% is slow and potentially harmful. There are times when it is necessary, but that is an infrastructure problem that is better solved with more DCFC locations vs higher density DCFC. These fees provide a financial incentive as a training mechanism, which is useful and provides some revenue balancing.

At a charger where you pay per kWh, slower charge rates cost the DCFC operator in lost revenue during congestion. If your car is pulling 12kW, instead of 100kW, that's a massive delta...

This isn't about rationing, it's about being able to service the most people without unnecessary investment in infrastructure.

Obviously, you're free to ignore all that. But that's what is happening with these kinds of fees, and it's good for everyone on aggregate.

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[CYBER-O]

If you don’t like where the industry is going, I don’t know who you need to complain to.

Try God?

 

[RickMachE]

I can probably do all those things in five minutes. It's different when the charger is being blocked for an extra half-hour. Reminds me of this:

Many years ago, we were driving a vehicle and a UHaul truck from PA to MA. Stopped, fueled the vehicle, then the moved it to fuel the truck. Went to pay (yes, years ago) and the guy said "when you moved that car I almost sent my dog on you because I thought you were skipping out on me".

 

[Mach1E]

Congestion fees that work like this are a way for operators to capture that lost revenue and provide an incentive for people to engage in better behaviors.

Charging your car over 80% is slow and potentially harmful. There are times when it is necessary, but that is an infrastructure problem that is better solved with more DCFC locations vs higher density DCFC. These fees provide a financial incentive as a training mechanism, which is useful and provides some revenue balancing.

At a charger where you pay per kWh, slower charge rates cost the DCFC operator in lost revenue during congestion. If your car is pulling 12kW, instead of 100kW, that's a massive delta...

This isn't about rationing, it's about being able to service the most people without unnecessary investment in infrastructure.

Obviously, you're free to ignore all that. But that's what is happening with these kinds of fees, and it's good for everyone on aggregate.

It may not be “about rationing,” but it is rationing.

Your points about it being good are valid.

But I still don’t like the idea of it. And I stand by my statement that it should be a temporary emergency fix only.

And how it looks to the general public? About as good as the headlines where California asked people not to charge their electric cars.

Also a temporary emergency thing, but still isn’t good press.

 

[Auto Motive]

Because you’ll be penalized for charging fully, so you have to charge more frequently.

Want to stop for lunch or dinner or shopping and charge? Fine, but you have to keep checking back with your car and maybe move it before you hit 90%, even if you planned on stopping for a longer time.

The DC charging experience already sucks.

This will just make it suck more.

If we want to encourage mass adoption I think this actually would take us two steps backwards.

I understand the need, but this doesn’t fix the core problem.


This is the equivalent of solving a “not enough parking” problem by handing out more parking tickets.

If the goal is to get more people to go to a place, more parking tickets will have the opposite effect. The solution is more parking spaces.

15 minutes is enough time to get coffee pee and pay. Plus 150 miles gained.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Because you’ll be penalized for charging fully, so you have to charge more frequently.

Want to stop for lunch or dinner or shopping and charge? Fine, but you have to keep checking back with your car and maybe move it before you hit 90%, even if you planned on stopping for a longer time.

The DC charging experience already sucks.

This will just make it suck more.

If we want to encourage mass adoption I think this actually would take us two steps backwards.

I understand the need, but this doesn’t fix the core problem.


This is the equivalent of solving a “not enough parking” problem by handing out more parking tickets.

If the goal is to get more people to go to a place, more parking tickets will have the opposite effect. The solution is more parking spaces.

I disagree with the caveat that this only applies until more chargers come online.

I think this with improve the DC charging experience because there will be more charger spots open. It's a net win for the EV community as a whole. Less waiting for a spot to open up at the expense of having to pay extra if you absolutely need to charge to 100% .

 

[azerik]

It is quite another thing to give away charging for three years. That promotes congestion.

But it's sometimes the only selling point for that vehicle/brand. More so if they had to build it as a penalty, only to use it as a freebie for sales.

 

[Mach1E]

I disagree with the caveat that this only applies until more chargers come online.

I think this with improve the DC charging experience because there will be more charger spots open. It's a net win for the EV community as a whole. Less waiting for a spot to open up at the expense of having to pay extra if you absolutely need to charge to 100% .

So you think it’s ok to penalize people for using chargers as designed (filling up your car to 100%)?

Agree to disagree I guess.

I totally understand some sort of idle charge when you’re 100% after a certain number of minutes.

But the dollar a minute or $5/min as OP suggested when not even fully charged is just absurd.

Especially since it’s based on things that are completely out of your control (how many other chargers are in use).

So you plug in when it’s empty and somehow come back to a full lot and a fine?

It’s not a question of if it’s effective (it will be), more of a principle thing.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

So you think it’s ok to penalize people for using chargers as designed (filling up your car to 100%)?

Agree to disagree I guess.

I totally understand some sort of idle charge when you’re 100% after a certain number of minutes.

But the dollar a minute or $5/min as OP suggested when not even fully charged is just absurd.

Especially since it’s based on things that are completely out of your control (how many other chargers are in use).

So you plug in when it’s empty and somehow come back to a full lot and a fine?

It’s not a question of if it’s effective (it will be), more of a principle thing.

It makes complete sense. Their cost is not just the electricity, but also the time that someone is occupying that space preventing others from charging. Instead of increasing the rate for everyone, they increase the rate for the biggest consumer, factoring in both time and the amount of electricity used.

I'm not sure how it's implemented, but perhaps Tesla only activates the congestion fee schedule based on when you plug in. So if you plug in when the lot is empty and later filled up, you're "grandfathered into the non-congestion fee rate."

 

[Mach1E]

It makes complete sense. Their cost is not just the electricity, but also the time that someone is occupying that space preventing others from charging. Instead of increasing the rate for everyone, they increase the rate for the biggest consumer, factoring in both time and the amount of electricity used.

I'm not sure how it's implemented, but perhaps Tesla only activates the congestion fee schedule based on when you plug in. So if you plug in when the lot is empty and later filled up, you're "grandfathered into the non-congestion fee rate."

It still feels exactly like a parking ticket.

And the amount of people who get a parking ticket and still feel “well that makes sense….” Rounds to zero.

 

[Auto Motive]

It still feels exactly like a parking ticket.

And the amount of people who get a parking ticket and still feel “well that makes sense….” Rounds to zero.

You pull in to fill up at a gas station and the car in front of you is filled. The driver sees every pump has lines waiting to fill up. They go in to the store and whatever they are doing you are waiting to use the pump. 15 minutes later they exit and leave. Your pissed but they are being ignorant not to pull up to a parking spot so you could fill up. The ev fee is fair especially as more ev are being sold. Some nut may decide to shoot you. Scary as it might sound it does happen.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

It still feels exactly like a parking ticket.

And the amount of people who get a parking ticket and still feel “well that makes sense….” Rounds to zero.

No, but the handicap person that had to park far away because someone who isn’t handicap parked in the reserve spot is sure to smile when they see a parking ticket being handed out.

 

[ChehRob]

If someone wanted to go from 80% to 100 couldn't they just finish at an L2?

 

[RickMachE]

If someone wanted to go from 80% to 100 couldn't they just finish at an L2?

They could, but DC fast charging from 80% to low 90% is much faster, roughly 44kW. Not until you get up to around 94kW does it slow to level 2 speeds.

 

[Rt1AWD]

The price per kW*hr should just go up during peak hours to force people adding only the necessary minimum when congested

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