Do we have unrealistic expectations?

[OlyPen]

I agree with this comment, which is why I enjoyed the "cold feet" thread on the reservations/purchasing sub-forum. As someone waiting for a car, it was really nice to see the overwhelming responses of how the vast majority really love their car.

The car is really great. My ownership has so far been pretty great. Yes, there's improvement to be made. But I genuinely think @Ford Motor Company is trying to do right by customers while pivoting a 110 year old family-run legacy auto maker into a new business model. That's a pretty inert object to inject new life into. LOL

Sponsored

 

[HuntingPudel]

I believe that there are some expectations that currently exceed the car. most of those will be addressed in software updates. I don’t currently have a MME, so my expectation is that I will get my ordered MME within the timeline that Ford quoted me; before the end of the year.

 

[MYOUTH]

Just reading the various posts and seeing topics that keep coming up that indicate expectations aren't matching reality..... So, QUESTIONS for group discussion (this is a NO JUDGMENT ZONE PLEASE....):

How many people took their ICE vehicle to any gas station, regardless of brand, stuck the fuel pump nozzle in their car and walked away while it fueled up? Or, were there credit cards and rewards programs to enter into the pump before you could fuel up and get the lowest price?

Why do we suddenly think an EV (or company) is broken because you can't plug it in to every brand charging station and walk away, automatically getting the lowest price?

How many times did you pop the hood on your ICE vehicle by hitting a button on your key fob? Why do we suddenly think the front hood should act differently because it's a storage space instead of an engine--but still subject to the same laws of physics and safety issues associated with ensuring it doesn't accidentally pop open when the vehicle is moving?

Tesla says their car is "full self driving", but it's not--and they get a pass. Ford says the MME has "Co-Pilot 360 Advanced Driver Assistance", and yet we jump all over them because the car doesn't drive itself perfectly in every situation, including ones that Ford specifically says it wasn't designed to handle, and tells you to put your hands on the wheel to stay in control?

I'm just wondering if our expectations exceed what is currently possible, and why we lack patience while one of the oldest legacy automobile manufacturers attempts to completely change their business model, products and services to adapt to the future, and we think that can happen in a week?

I feel like a little more patience with the infrastructure and transition to a different powertrain might help us achieve some EV Zen. You may return to your regularly scheduled forum threads.... ???

Well said. I totally agree.

 

[OlyPen]

Well said. I totally agree.

@MYOUTH you always were my favorite. ??

 

[IL_Vet]

So far, plug and charge works for me as advertised at EA chargers. Yes, I've seen anecdotal reports that it hasn't worked for everyone. Ford never promised that plug and charge would recognize this party member rates. Only that you could conveniently plug in at an EA station and be billed by Ford for kWh used without needing to open an app. EA members have to pay in advance to reload their account (maybe I don't want to do that as I'd like to keep the money in my bank account and not EA's). So the FordPass plug and charge currently works identically as any other "pay for only what you use" approach and is more convenient.

Should Ford negotiate lower rates? Yes. Does Tesla honor any lower member rates at non-Tesla charging stations? No. Does Tesla plug and charge at any non-Tesla charging station? No.

PAAK? Absolutely that's a failure on Ford's part and they should step up and offer a free second key fob to early adopters until they get it working flawlessly (interacts with car every time and doesn't drain phone battery). Opening the car door and starting it should always work. Period.

So OP, basically, you created this thread to argue and minimize that others' concerns or opinions are inferior to your thoughts and opinions. You have your valued thoughts and opinions about the MME launch and others are entitled to the same value in theirs.

 

[OlyPen]

So OP, basically, you created this thread to argue and minimize that others' concerns or opinions are inferior to your thoughts and opinions. You have your valued thoughts and opinions about the MME launch and others are entitled to the same value in theirs.

Ok.

 

[IL_Vet]

The Mach E and P&C are quite literally 1.0. It took Tesla a decade to get their charging where it is, and they have a closed system which means they control BOTH sides of the equation. EA alone has FOUR DIFFERENT manufacturers of their chargers, and JUST RELEASED v1.0 of P&C within the last six months.

I get that you love Tesla but don't understand why you're deliberately being obtuse about the 2 manufacturers being at 2 different points in the product development life cycle.

Is it your intent to contend that Ford did not and should not have EXTENSIVELY studied every aspect of the World's existent EV ecosystem? For the record, I favor my MME over my TMS. I feel that both sides of the summarized arguments in this thread should allow patience and understanding from the other. If people didn't voice concerns and complaints, stuff wouldn't improve. However, manufacturers should carefully strive to advertise what they can provide at the moment of advertising and be clear about future updates, probable hiccups, etc....

 

[OlyPen]

Is it your intent to contend that Ford did not and should not have EXTENSIVELY studied every aspect of the World's existent EV ecosystem? For the record, I favor my MME over my TMS. I feel that both sides of the summarized arguments in this thread should allow patience and understanding from the other. If people didn't voice concerns and complaints, stuff wouldn't improve. However, manufacturers should carefully strive to advertise what they can provide at the moment of advertising and be clear about future updates, probable hiccups, etc....

Agreed! My point is not that people should point out opportunities for improvement, especially for a vehicle that is designed "to get better over time"... I just think we also need to inject some realistic expectations along with that. In one post on this forum, it's taken the direction of petitioning CEOs to immediately charge EA member rates for plug and charge for their MMEs. That feels unrealistic, especially accusing both companies of false advertising (it's not) and intentional "bait and switch" (it's not). There's an easy known workaround for EA members to always get their member rate, requiring a couple extra clicks on their cell phone. It's not like anyone is denying them their membership rates.

Should Ford integrate member rates with plug and charge? Absolutely. Are they currently working on that? I believe them when they say they are. Will that happen tomorrow? I think it's realistic to say it's slightly more complicated than that and it's an unrealistic expectation to think it can be resolved overnight.

Did Ford screw up PAAK (probably by underestimating the complexity of the mobile phone software universe)? Absolutely. Should Ford rectify that by providing an additional key fob to customers who bought the vehicles early and rightly expect their "key" to open the door and start the car everytime without issue? Yes, they should.

So I'm not here to squelch all "complaining". I'm here to suggest that we should align our expectations a bit more with reality, view Ford as a benevolent company (or at least not a company that is hostile to its customers) working to make it right (until they prove otherwise), and work with the company as a group to help make the MME the best it can possibly be.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Just reading the various posts and seeing topics that keep coming up that indicate expectations aren't matching reality..... So, QUESTIONS for group discussion (this is a NO JUDGMENT ZONE PLEASE....):

How many people took their ICE vehicle to any gas station, regardless of brand, stuck the fuel pump nozzle in their car and walked away while it fueled up? Or, were there credit cards and rewards programs to enter into the pump before you could fuel up and get the lowest price?

Why do we suddenly think an EV (or company) is broken because you can't plug it in to every brand charging station and walk away, automatically getting the lowest price?

How many times did you pop the hood on your ICE vehicle by hitting a button on your key fob? Why do we suddenly think the front hood should act differently because it's a storage space instead of an engine--but still subject to the same laws of physics and safety issues associated with ensuring it doesn't accidentally pop open when the vehicle is moving?

Tesla says their car is "full self driving", but it's not--and they get a pass. Ford says the MME has "Co-Pilot 360 Advanced Driver Assistance", and yet we jump all over them because the car doesn't drive itself perfectly in every situation, including ones that Ford specifically says it wasn't designed to handle, and tells you to put your hands on the wheel to stay in control?

I'm just wondering if our expectations exceed what is currently possible, and why we lack patience while one of the oldest legacy automobile manufacturers attempts to completely change their business model, products and services to adapt to the future, and we think that can happen in a week?

I feel like a little more patience with the infrastructure and transition to a different powertrain might help us achieve some EV Zen. You may return to your regularly scheduled forum threads.... ???

Yes. This is new technology and a unique vehicle for Ford. Some folks here often seem to think the car will drive them down the road all by itself while serving chilled caviar on a platter.

 

[OlyPen]

Yes. This is new technology and a unique vehicle for Ford. Some folks here often seem to think the car will drive them down the road all by itself while serving chilled caviar on a platter.

Oh. I love caviar! ?? Let's start a petition..........

 

[timbop]

Is it your intent to contend that Ford did not and should not have EXTENSIVELY studied every aspect of the World's existent EV ecosystem? For the record, I favor my MME over my TMS. I feel that both sides of the summarized arguments in this thread should allow patience and understanding from the other. If people didn't voice concerns and complaints, stuff wouldn't improve. However, manufacturers should carefully strive to advertise what they can provide at the moment of advertising and be clear about future updates, probable hiccups, etc....

Clearly you've never been involved in a large software product. Just as me watching Jacob DeGrom does not automatically give me the ability to throw a nasty breaking pitch, Ford seeing how Tesla did things doesn't mean that Ford can or will automatically be able to do them. Ford absolutely did tear down the Model 3 and probably other cars to learn how they did things, but they had no access to the source code.

Seeing the functionality that others do does not translate into code that you can execute. In fact, if you take their code without paying for it that's typically considered a copyright infringement. And sometimes a patent infringement; yes there are patents on software.

The Mach E has tens of millions of lines of code, which is tens of millions of opportunities to make a mistake. A misplaced parenthesis, semicolon, or misordered operation is all it takes for a bug to happen. No software has ever been perfect in any iteration, and it is generally least perfect at the beginning of its lifespan. When it comes to interoperating with other company's products it is far worse, because no matter how thoroughly specifications and standards are written there are always scenarios not thought of and ambiguous statements. Inevitably that leads too miscues between products. I can tell you from personal experience that happens ALL the time.

 

[shutterbug]

Oh. I love caviar! ?? Let's start a petition..........

Yes! Please! With chilled Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in Waterford crystal and buckwheat blinis.

 

[OlyPen]

Yes! Please! With chilled Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in Waterford crystal and buckwheat blinis.

? I'd settle for Swarovski Crystal.

 

[Shayne]

Yes. This is new technology and a unique vehicle for Ford. Some folks here often seem to think the car will drive them down the road all by itself while serving chilled caviar on a platter.

Mine does that yours doesn't? It is under settings, vehicle, caviar. There are options once you enter the caviar menu.

 

[mdolan92869]

Yes! Please! With chilled Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame in Waterford crystal and buckwheat blinis.

Excuse me, do you have any Grey Poupon?

Sponsored