Do we have unrealistic expectations?

[OlyPen]

Just reading the various posts and seeing topics that keep coming up that indicate expectations aren't matching reality..... So, QUESTIONS for group discussion (this is a NO JUDGMENT ZONE PLEASE....):

How many people took their ICE vehicle to any gas station, regardless of brand, stuck the fuel pump nozzle in their car and walked away while it fueled up? Or, were there credit cards and rewards programs to enter into the pump before you could fuel up and get the lowest price?

Why do we suddenly think an EV (or company) is broken because you can't plug it in to every brand charging station and walk away, automatically getting the lowest price?

How many times did you pop the hood on your ICE vehicle by hitting a button on your key fob? Why do we suddenly think the front hood should act differently because it's a storage space instead of an engine--but still subject to the same laws of physics and safety issues associated with ensuring it doesn't accidentally pop open when the vehicle is moving?

Tesla says their car is "full self driving", but it's not--and they get a pass. Ford says the MME has "Co-Pilot 360 Advanced Driver Assistance", and yet we jump all over them because the car doesn't drive itself perfectly in every situation, including ones that Ford specifically says it wasn't designed to handle, and tells you to put your hands on the wheel to stay in control?

I'm just wondering if our expectations exceed what is currently possible, and why we lack patience while one of the oldest legacy automobile manufacturers attempts to completely change their business model, products and services to adapt to the future, and we think that can happen in a week?

I feel like a little more patience with the infrastructure and transition to a different powertrain might help us achieve some EV Zen. You may return to your regularly scheduled forum threads.... ???

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[BMT1071]

All excellent questions.

 

[gafear]

Well because your benchmarks are not "ICE" cars, you need to compare apples to apples.

The Teslas work everytime for plug&charge and have options to open the frunk on the app. The fact that Mach E was built later means that we would expect it

Agree on the FSD bullahit from Tesla, I'm quite happy with the advanced driver. I wish it would annoy me less often asking to put the hands on the wheel, specially in heavy traffic where it seems to work 100%

 

[timbop]

The tone of this forum has definitely changed since the cars started getting delivered. Before then it was about finding scraps of information and lots of enthusiasm. It seems to have devolved into a complaint department since then.

 

[timbop]

Well because your benchmarks are not "ICE" cars, you need to compare apples to apples.

The Teslas work everytime for plug&charge and have options to open the frunk on the app. The fact that Mach E was built later means that we would expect it

Agree on the FSD bullahit from Tesla, I'm quite happy with the advanced driver. I wish it would annoy me less often asking to put the hands on the wheel, specially in heavy traffic where it seems to work 100%

Tesla's didn't work perfectly out of the gate either. Version 1.0 is always far worse than version 3.0, and I am not sure why otherwise "tech savvy" individuals seem not to grasp that concept with the Mach E.

 

[OlyPen]

Well because your benchmarks are not "ICE" cars, you need to compare apples to apples.

Apples: Tesla builds a propietary EV charging network that only works with their cars, you pay the vehicle manufacturer to charge your vehicle, and the car is not universally compatible with any competitive charging network without an adapter--and doesn't support plug and charge outside of Tesla's own chargers!

Oranges: Literally every other company trying to work together to build a new universal standards-based global system out of thin air.

How would the forum posts look if you could only go to Ford charging stations to charge your vehicle (and pay Ford) or be forced to buy a third-party adapter to use anywhere else with no support from the manufacturer?

Kudos to Ford for trying to take the lead in creating a new universal EV charging infrastructure that all manufacturers participate in, there's a competitive landscape of charging providers, and all consumers have the experience regardless of vehicle or charging station.... It's early early days in building out a completely new vehicle "fuel" infrastructure for millions of vehicles. I applaud Ford for not going the route of "propietary and noncompetitive" with their charging approach.

And it's been just about ten minutes since the car was launched in the middle of a global pandemic with serious deficiencies in the entire global supply chain and transportation logistics. ?

 

[OlyPen]

The tone of this forum has definitely changed since the cars started getting delivered. Before then it was about finding scraps of information and lots of enthusiasm. It seems to have devolved into a complaint department since then.

Let's bring back the love! We're in this grand exciting experiment together, literally at the start of the most significant change to transportation in almost two centuries. How cool is that!?

 

[OlyPen]

Some apples comparisons.....

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-owners-vins-delivery-dates-have-shifted-q2-2021-delivery-push/

 

[gafear]

I think the reason is exactly what I said above, the Mach E was built after the "3.0". So you are comparing to the 3.0 version not the 1.0

Not having it ready is a failure from Ford, I'm not sure why you are sugarcoating it

 

[OlyPen]

I think the reason is exactly what I said above, the Mach E was built after the "3.0". So you are comparing to the 3.0 version not the 1.0

Not having it ready is a failure from Ford, I'm not sure why you are sugarcoating it

I'm not sugarcoating it. I'm trying to be realistic. Tesla's a number of years in and still has paint and tremendous quality control issues in manufacturing, but they get a pass? Tesla just quietly pushed a bunch of people's orders back with no notice because they can't produce them as fast as promised, but they're setting a standard that Ford isn't living up to when Ford gives delivery timelines, but seem to be consistently getting them to customers *earlier* than promised despite all the logistics issues?

Tesla promised--and sold for $10,000--"full self driving" 3 years ago and still hasn't delivered it to customers who paid for it! But I'm sugarcoating Ford's efforts to provide plug and charging (which works as promised at EA stations) but doesn't yet recognize MME's that are owned by a paying EA member to give them EA member pricing after only being available for *less than 6 months*? EA didn't exist before 2 years ago and the MME was just a twinkle in a CEO's eye. Should Ford have held the vehicle back from customers until plug and charge works by charging customers EA member pricing if they're EA members (or is every MME supposed to get EA member pricing without paying for a membership)? I don't think so.

So I'm not sugarcoating it. In just one month, I've seen tremendous improvement from Ford in their effort get in front of issues and resolve them for current owners while also trying to roll those improvements into the cars being manufactured and get them into customers' hands as quickly as possible... While also rolling out a new full size electric truck and a new hybrid compact truck on top of the GT....

Having owned a Ford Mustang during the "economy car years in the 80s" when the paint was literally two different colors unintentionally, I think Ford has come a long way. And reviewers (like Edmunds) think Ford's 1.0 already beats Tesla's 3.0.

So, no I don't think I'm sugarcoating here. I'm acknowledging that--overall--Ford's done a pretty exceptional job given all the realistic circumstances surrounding the MME launch. Are there issues? Absolutely. Do I think Ford is trying to fix them? Yes. Is it taking longer than a week to do that? Yes. Is it the end of the world to pull a lever to open the hood on a brand new EV? It is not.

 

[OlyPen]

@gafear so Ford should follow in Tesla's footsteps regarding plug and charge?

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp36839879/customer-sues-tesla-over-supercharger-fees/

Just curious why you're sugarcoating Tesla's approach to charging?

 

[Shayne]

I'm just wondering if our expectations exceed what is currently possible, and why we lack patience while one of the oldest legacy automobile manufacturers attempts to completely change their business model, products and services to adapt to the future, and we think that can happen in a week?

I feel like a little more patience with the infrastructure and transition to a different powertrain might help us achieve some EV Zen. You may return to your regularly scheduled forum threads.... ???

Expectations exceeding current design can lead to better designs. I think ford hit a home run here on the big step up and expectations met. Clean up the software and charging a bit and they are rolling. Pointing out something that could be better is not a bad thing but does take patience. None on your list bother me as I use none of them too much (frunk safety, 360 take off the jacket, there's an app for that). I love it runs on batteries and drives so well. Really good times but the transformation to driving the perfect computer may not happen over night. Don't forget we have OTA to come.

 

[timbop]

I think the reason is exactly what I said above, the Mach E was built after the "3.0". So you are comparing to the 3.0 version not the 1.0

Not having it ready is a failure from Ford, I'm not sure why you are sugarcoating it

The Mach E and P&C are quite literally 1.0. It took Tesla a decade to get their charging where it is, and they have a closed system which means they control BOTH sides of the equation. EA alone has FOUR DIFFERENT manufacturers of their chargers, and JUST RELEASED v1.0 of P&C within the last six months.

I get that you love Tesla but don't understand why you're deliberately being obtuse about the 2 manufacturers being at 2 different points in the product development life cycle.

 

[Shayne]

The Mach E and P&C are quite literally 1.0. It took Tesla a decade to get their charging where it is, and they have a closed system which means they control BOTH sides of the equation. EA alone has FOUR DIFFERENT manufacturers of their chargers, and JUST RELEASED v1.0 of P&C within the last six months.

I get that you love Tesla but don't understand why you're deliberately being obtuse about the 2 manufacturers being at 2 different points in the product development life cycle.

CCS will be the dominate connection in the future not Tesla's I think. We will see more and more options and will be able to pick and choose but for right now the wave is still rolling in. This is not something that was unknown at the time of purchase and if you buy this vehicle you should be able to run an app. Kyle indicated running the chargers app he got the lower rates and it worked flawlessly. I think Ford is aware, let Ford work it out and use the workaround for now. Not a biggie if one so simple exists.

 

[Deleted member 3569]

My expectations so far have exceeded what I had hoped for in the Mach-E . I only got a RWD std range (68 kwH) and I have more than 1,200 miles. Unfortunately there are a lots of nay sayers in this forum, posting unlikely circumstance with a probability of less than 1% occurring. One has to be daring, one has to be adventurous and daring ..to truly appreciate the EV world for it is a new frontier. Yes the salesman fumbled and was frustrated because he was unable to initially configure the vehicle ... yes the Ford's charging network is a charade ... yes the only viable charging during long road trips is the EA's dcFast chargers .... yes the rear bumper is not made to accept a US license plate but a China plate will fit perfectly (I brought one home from my last China trip ....!!!).

...but the exhilarating feeling of acceleration is something I have never felt in my meager ct200H Lexus hybrid ...and the no $300 oil changes (for my ex Mercedes)!! ... no brake pads changes ... these are true tangible unattainable with ICE vehicles !!!

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